Change direction for perimeter extrusion at odd layers. #2413

Noisyfox · 2023-10-14T12:12:48Z

Initial test code based on supermerill/SuperSlicer@87245ae

Test model from https://www.printables.com/model/235524-bridge-test

Initial test code based on supermerill/SuperSlicer@87245ae

…, to support overhangs on both side. Also fixes wipe on loop.

igiannakas · 2023-10-15T09:56:56Z

Been testing this for a couple of prints together with remaining PRs from noisyfox. Looks good. Not sure what else is pending (and it’s in draft).

btw the new release is going to be so good! A super combo of features from prusa slicer & super slicer 🎉

Noisyfox · 2023-10-15T13:54:43Z

Been testing this for a couple of prints together with remaining PRs from noisyfox. Looks good. Not sure what else is pending (and it’s in draft).

btw the new release is going to be so good! A super combo of features from prusa slicer & super slicer 🎉

I'm going to add filtering and config for this feature then the PR will be ready.

igiannakas · 2023-10-15T14:10:29Z

Stupid question but is there a particular reason why we wouldn’t want all loops to be alternating irrespective of the overhang angle? Maybe seam inconsistency?

Also my 2 cents - I wouldn’t add this as a config option - it’s such an obvious improvement that it should always be active in my view.

Noisyfox · 2023-10-15T14:19:48Z

Stupid question but is there a particular reason why we wouldn’t want all loops to be alternating irrespective of the overhang angle? Maybe seam inconsistency?

Also my 2 cents - I wouldn’t add this as a config option - it’s such an obvious improvement that it should always be active in my view.

To support modifier so that you can only turn this on at certain part of your model while not affecting the surface quality of other parts.

Alternating extrusion direction will affect surface quality, even for perfectly vertical surfaces, due to the fact that your nozzle /motor/belt/etc. behave slightly differently on different directions:

You can clearly see the lower one has those alternating pattern on the side while the upper one does not.

So I want to allow user to fine control this feature to achieve the best of both worlds.

igiannakas · 2023-10-15T17:56:44Z

Stupid question but is there a particular reason why we wouldn’t want all loops to be alternating irrespective of the overhang angle? Maybe seam inconsistency?
Also my 2 cents - I wouldn’t add this as a config option - it’s such an obvious improvement that it should always be active in my view.

To support modifier so that you can only turn this on at certain part of your model while not affecting the surface quality of other parts.

Alternating extrusion direction will affect surface quality, even for perfectly vertical surfaces, due to the fact that your nozzle /motor/belt/etc. behave slightly differently on different directions: You can clearly see the lower one has those alternating pattern on the side while the upper one does not.

So I want to allow user to fine control this feature to achieve the best of both worlds.

Thank you! I did indeed notice this in my test print.

In which case maybe an option to exclude the external perimeter from the change of direction would be a good option to add. So to always avoid external perimeter artefacts on all cases but compromising a bit on the overhang quality.

The extra perimeters on overhang should be able to deal with the majority of the overhang anyway. Have you done any tests with the above? Ie clockwise and counterclockwise internal perimeters & infill and always clockwise external?

igiannakas · 2023-10-15T19:31:49Z

Also why disable the algorithm for fuzzy skin?

Sineos · 2023-10-16T11:45:36Z

In which case maybe an option to exclude the external perimeter from the change of direction would be a good option to add. So to always avoid external perimeter artefacts on all cases but compromising a bit on the overhang quality.

This would be a great feature to have.
As I'm printing a lot of ASA and also quite big objects, this alternating wall directions is a life saver (using Cura) since it significantly reduced warping.
Despite having around 50°C chamber temperature, I have seen 300+ mm ASA prints lifting the magnetic PEI sheet of its base.

SoftFever · 2023-10-18T15:56:16Z

In which case maybe an option to exclude the external perimeter from the change of direction would be a good option to add. So to always avoid external perimeter artefacts on all cases but compromising a bit on the overhang quality.

This would be a great feature to have. As I'm printing a lot of ASA and also quite big objects, this alternating wall directions is a life saver (using Cura) since it significantly reduced warping. Despite having around 50°C chamber temperature, I have seen 300+ mm ASA prints lifting the magnetic PEI sheet of its base.

Wouldn't the alternating external perimeter be the main factor contributing to the improvement of overhangs though?

igiannakas · 2023-10-18T16:30:29Z

In which case maybe an option to exclude the external perimeter from the change of direction would be a good option to add. So to always avoid external perimeter artefacts on all cases but compromising a bit on the overhang quality.

This would be a great feature to have. As I'm printing a lot of ASA and also quite big objects, this alternating wall directions is a life saver (using Cura) since it significantly reduced warping. Despite having around 50°C chamber temperature, I have seen 300+ mm ASA prints lifting the magnetic PEI sheet of its base.

Wouldn't the alternating external perimeter be the main factor contributing to the improvement of overhangs though?

It depends. If the overhang is severe it should have two or almost two perimeters in mid air. In that case it would work nicely without affecting the external surface of the model I would think?

Noisyfox · 2023-10-19T01:13:09Z

Also why disable the algorithm for fuzzy skin?

Ah when I started working on this I reused the overhang detection result from the overhang slowdown code, which is disabled when fuzzy skin is used. Then later when I decided to not use it (as it's only available in classic overhang speed mode) and write my own steep overhang detect code, I just kept the same logic.

I think the logic behind this is when fuzzy skin is used, there will be countless of tiny overhangs due to the uneven surface, which could mess the algorithm up, and also since those overhangs are just so tiny they should not affect print quality.

I've never used this feature before personally, so I'm not sure if this will be a problem or not. Maybe if fuzzy skin is enabled we ignore the overhang detection and force reversing regardless? Since I think with the fuzzy skin you won't notice the surface quality decreasing cause by the alternating extrusion order?

igiannakas · 2023-10-19T06:20:57Z

Also why disable the algorithm for fuzzy skin?

Ah when I started working on this I reused the overhang detection result from the overhang slowdown code, which is disabled when fuzzy skin is used. Then later when I decided to not use it (as it's only available in classic overhang speed mode) and write my own steep overhang detect code, I just kept the same logic.

I think the logic behind this is when fuzzy skin is used, there will be countless of tiny overhangs due to the uneven surface, which could mess the algorithm up, and also since those overhangs are just so tiny they should not affect print quality.

I've never used this feature before personally, so I'm not sure if this will be a problem or not. Maybe if fuzzy skin is enabled we ignore the overhang detection and force reversing regardless? Since I think with the fuzzy skin you won't notice the surface quality decreasing cause by the alternating extrusion order?

Ah I see. Maybe let’s give it a try with it always enabled on fuzzy skin - it won’t show the artefacts due to the surface variation that’s inherent to it. Happy to test it for you (I’ve printed a few models with it - crochet style pumpkins for Halloween :D)

igiannakas · 2023-10-19T17:14:03Z

So i've been trying to test the new version but the app crashes on start up. Unfortunately no helpfull error logs other than an unknown exception has occured. Maybe something is wrong with the variable setup in the GUI. Any chance for a cross check?

…e-wall-order # Conflicts: # src/libslic3r/Preset.cpp

Noisyfox · 2023-10-20T00:55:59Z

So i've been trying to test the new version but the app crashes on start up. Unfortunately no helpfull error logs other than an unknown exception has occured. Maybe something is wrong with the variable setup in the GUI. Any chance for a cross check?

Sure, how could I reproduce the issue?

Are those crashes caused by those asserts?

Noisyfox · 2023-10-20T01:33:00Z

Also why disable the algorithm for fuzzy skin?

Ah when I started working on this I reused the overhang detection result from the overhang slowdown code, which is disabled when fuzzy skin is used. Then later when I decided to not use it (as it's only available in classic overhang speed mode) and write my own steep overhang detect code, I just kept the same logic.
I think the logic behind this is when fuzzy skin is used, there will be countless of tiny overhangs due to the uneven surface, which could mess the algorithm up, and also since those overhangs are just so tiny they should not affect print quality.
I've never used this feature before personally, so I'm not sure if this will be a problem or not. Maybe if fuzzy skin is enabled we ignore the overhang detection and force reversing regardless? Since I think with the fuzzy skin you won't notice the surface quality decreasing cause by the alternating extrusion order?

Ah I see. Maybe let’s give it a try with it always enabled on fuzzy skin - it won’t show the artefacts due to the surface variation that’s inherent to it. Happy to test it for you (I’ve printed a few models with it - crochet style pumpkins for Halloween :D)

I've added the support for fuzzy skin, feel free to give it a try.

igiannakas · 2023-10-20T06:18:41Z

So i've been trying to test the new version but the app crashes on start up. Unfortunately no helpfull error logs other than an unknown exception has occured. Maybe something is wrong with the variable setup in the GUI. Any chance for a cross check?

Sure, how could I reproduce the issue?

Are those crashes caused by those asserts?

Nope they wouldn’t - the assert statements only affect the debug build as that is when they are evaluated. Something else is going on - I’ll give a try to the latest build from softfevers pipeline as mine doesn’t seem to work with this PR and let you know.

igiannakas · 2023-10-21T07:21:54Z

@SoftFever tried your build of it- works great. Maybe some merge error on my side was causing it to crash.

SoftFever · 2023-10-21T08:02:40Z

src/libslic3r/PerimeterGenerator.cpp

@@ -283,6 +332,22 @@ static ExtrusionEntityCollection traverse_loops(const PerimeterGenerator &perime
            BoundingBox bbox(polygon.points);
            bbox.offset(SCALED_EPSILON);

+            // Always reverse extrusion if use fuzzy skin: https://github.com/SoftFever/OrcaSlicer/pull/2413#issuecomment-1769735357


Question: why are we differenciate contour and hole for reversing?

To improve surface quality when only contour/hole surface has steep overhang. There is no need to reverse the hole surface if only the contour surface has steep overhang, and vice versa.

make sense 👍

SoftFever · 2023-10-21T09:23:01Z

@Noisyfox Thanks for the fantastic work.
Looks all good.
Merged 👍

Rhotix · 2023-10-29T21:21:29Z

So what is the use of this? I can print such overhangs flawless. Is there an issue to it or some special design? Please dont implement things as always active, since it can affect others setup

Noisyfox · 2023-10-30T00:52:23Z

I can print such overhangs flawless.

I cannot.

Please dont implement things as always active

It's not.

vovodroid · 2023-12-28T16:44:43Z

this alternating wall directions is a life saver

@Sineos , what is infill percent in you prints? Interesting, that Cura not just alternates directions each layer, but also alternate each perimeter direction. Questions is whether it's necessary to reduce warping, or each layer alternating is good enough?

vovodroid · 2023-12-30T08:20:39Z

Hi, actually using term "odd layer" is wrong from user point of view. Though in code expression layer_id % 2 == 1 is used, layer numeration in GUI starts from 1, i.e. layer_id+1. Thus reversing happens on even layers, starting from layer 2.

Sineos · 2023-12-30T10:26:20Z

what is infill percent in you prints?

Typically 40% to 60%.
Interesting information that Cura is doing more here. Matches to my empirical feeling that Cura prints with this option are less prone to warping, but OTH it is difficult to tell since warping heavily depends on size and geometry of the part.

vovodroid · 2023-12-30T11:55:00Z

Matches to my empirical feeling that Cura prints with this option are less prone to warping

Speed, layer height, seams position, etc. I successfully printed quite big ASA object sliced in Prusa with draft shield (not on photo):

Change direction for perimeter extrusion at odd layers.

94246e9

Initial test code based on supermerill/SuperSlicer@87245ae

Noisyfox marked this pull request as draft October 14, 2023 12:12

SoftFever and others added 2 commits October 14, 2023 20:20

Merge branch 'main' into dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order

d07e239

Perimeters for both contours and holes can have alternating direction…

2f568b4

…, to support overhangs on both side. Also fixes wipe on loop.

Noisyfox force-pushed the dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order branch from 3db8f64 to 2f568b4 Compare October 15, 2023 04:24

Only reverse order if the loops have steep overhang

50b6027

Support a special case that treat every layer as steep overhang

2d185d8

Noisyfox force-pushed the dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order branch 2 times, most recently from b2f599f to ee55d13 Compare October 15, 2023 14:51

Add options

7c5feb6

Noisyfox force-pushed the dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order branch from ee55d13 to 7c5feb6 Compare October 15, 2023 14:54

Noisyfox marked this pull request as ready for review October 15, 2023 15:19

Disable overhang reverse if vase mode is enabled

8abde0f

Merge branch 'main' into dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order

1fc4503

Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/main' into dev/overhang-alternat…

cbdcc61

…e-wall-order # Conflicts: # src/libslic3r/Preset.cpp

SoftFever and others added 2 commits October 20, 2023 09:13

Merge branch 'main' into dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order

bf34782

Allow extrusion reversal and skip overhang detection if fuzzy skin

88828e5

Merge branch 'main' into dev/overhang-alternate-wall-order

db120df

SoftFever reviewed Oct 21, 2023

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SoftFever approved these changes Oct 21, 2023

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SoftFever merged commit 951252c into SoftFever:main Oct 21, 2023
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igiannakas mentioned this pull request Nov 13, 2023

Add option to "Reverse only internal perimeters" under the reverse on odd feature to reduce part warping #2722

Merged

vovodroid mentioned this pull request Jan 25, 2024

Reverse extrusion directions prusa3d/PrusaSlicer#12126

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Change direction for perimeter extrusion at odd layers. #2413

Change direction for perimeter extrusion at odd layers. #2413

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Change direction for perimeter extrusion at odd layers. #2413

Change direction for perimeter extrusion at odd layers. #2413

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