Berry talk at conference in AU

[darrylb123]

Earlier in the year I submitted a talk proposal for a conference in Australia in April 2024. The proposal was 'Tasmota and Berry, not just for home automation'. The talk was initially rejected but I have now been asked if I could present it.
My thoughts were an brief overview of ESP32 and Tasmota, then a decent review of using Berry for general purpose embedded tasks. Have there been any presentations in this context that I may use some of the material? I propose to submit the presentation here for someone to use in the future.

[s-hadinger]

Awesome. But I'm afraid there is material already available. I know very well the internals of Berry so happy to help if needed.

[darrylb123]

Thanks, When you mention the material available, it that the documentation or other presentations. A review of my presentation would be very helpful. I'm certainly no expert. I propose to: Short discussion on the esp32 Short history of tasmota Brief introduction of the rule engine and limitations Introduce berry Berry libraries Tasmota support Talk length 40min, including questions. Should be time for a demo or 2

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On Mon, 11 Mar 2024, 5:04 pm s-hadinger, ***@***.***> wrote: Awesome. But I'm afraid there is material already available. I know very well the internals of Berry so happy to help if needed. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#38 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABTSUVOV2FQQUAFKBIV3D4TYXVJONAVCNFSM6AAAAABEPR3VZGVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4DONBRGU3DE> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[s-hadinger]

Happy to review.

On the Berry side, you can mention that it is heavily inspired from LUA but with a more pythonic syntax. Berry is specifically designed for a small code footprint and low memory usage, while being functional (closures) and object-oriented at the same time.

Berry is VM-based, it compiles to bytecode. Also worth noting that the Berry compiler to bytecode is "single-pass", again to reduce the size of the compiler and reduce memory usage. This limits the amount of optimization it can do.

In term of performance, I remember that berry achieves ~1Mips (1 million simple instruction per second), to have a rough estimate of its compute performance, although most of the time is spent dereferencing attributes names

[darrylb123]

Yes, I wanted to implement a PID loop for a little project. Grabbed a simple python implementation and converted to Berry in about 5 minutes.

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On Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 6:48 PM s-hadinger ***@***.***> wrote: Happy to review. On the Berry side, you can mention that it is heavily inspired from LUA but with a more pythonic syntax. Berry is specifically designed for a small code footprint and low memory usage, while being functional (closures) and object-oriented at the same time. Berry is VM-based, it compiles to bytecode. Also worth noting that the Berry compiler to bytecode is "single-pass", again to reduce the size of the compiler and reduce memory usage. This limits the amount of optimization it can do. In term of performance, I remember that berry achieves ~1Mips (1 million simple instruction per second), to have a rough estimate of its compute performance, although most of the time is spent dereferencing attributes names — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#38 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABTSUVOUWNETUFFOPWV3AVLYX26MXAVCNFSM6AAAAABEPR3VZGVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4DONJWGQZTQ> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[darrylb123]

I'd never heard of Berry until I saw the Berry console option in the beta esp32 version. Why choose Berry, why not Lua or micro python... Make an interesting slide...

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On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, 7:05 pm Darryl Bond, ***@***.***> wrote: Yes, I wanted to implement a PID loop for a little project. Grabbed a simple python implementation and converted to Berry in about 5 minutes. On Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 6:48 PM s-hadinger ***@***.***> wrote: > Happy to review. > > On the Berry side, you can mention that it is heavily inspired from LUA > but with a more pythonic syntax. Berry is specifically designed for a small > code footprint and low memory usage, while being functional (closures) and > object-oriented at the same time. > > Berry is VM-based, it compiles to bytecode. Also worth noting that the > Berry compiler to bytecode is "single-pass", again to reduce the size of > the compiler and reduce memory usage. This limits the amount of > optimization it can do. > > In term of performance, I remember that berry achieves ~1Mips (1 million > simple instruction per second), to have a rough estimate of its compute > performance, although most of the time is spent dereferencing attributes > names > > — > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub > <#38 (reply in thread)>, > or unsubscribe > <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABTSUVOUWNETUFFOPWV3AVLYX26MXAVCNFSM6AAAAABEPR3VZGVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4DONJWGQZTQ> > . > You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: > ***@***.*** > com> >

[s-hadinger]

Good question. I spent some time to find this gem.

Berry is "just a library" that you can call from whatever call. MicroPython on the contrary takes control of the entire system and was not really compatible with Tasmota architectuer. LUA was a little too heavy, and the syntax was not so much appreciated (especially index starting at 1 instead of 0 in arrays).

Another contender was https://github.com/cesanta/elk (javascript) but I largely prefrer Python syntax compared to JS.

[darrylb123]

I have a first draft darrylb123
/
EO2024 in LibreOffice Impress format. The words are there, just might change the format.

[s-hadinger]

Thanks, great content. When mentioning impactful features, you can also mention Matter protocol support. This is an important feature for many users. It also supports ESP8266 devices via a Tasmota Matter Bridge.

[Jason2866]

Indeed, nice short Presentation with all mandantory points! As said from Stephan just the already very well Berry Matter implementation is missing.

[darrylb123]

Thanks, I have not even looked at Matter. Sounds like I should.

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On Fri, 22 Mar 2024, 8:57 pm s-hadinger, ***@***.***> wrote: Thanks, great content. When mentioning impactful features, you can also mention Matter protocol support. This is an important feature for many users. It also supports ESP8266 devices via a Tasmota Matter Bridge. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#38 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABTSUVI7JSYH67YQ52CJW7TYZQFB7AVCNFSM6AAAAABEPR3VZGVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4DQNZWGY3DQ> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[darrylb123]

I see why you bring up Matter. Implemented in Berry. I shall add that. Pushed a new version of the presentation.

[darrylb123]

The presentation was delivered today. Good feedback. The final version is [here]
(https://github.com/darrylb123/EO2024/blob/main/EO2024-Tasmota%2BBerry.odp).
The video will be available in a few weeks. I'll post the link when it's complete. Do you want the presentation in the playground somewhere?

[s-hadinger]

Awesome. Let's have a discussion with the staff about where to put it

[s-hadinger]

We discussed it and decided it would be best within the Tasmota documentation. Is it possible to convert the presentation to a browser friendly format to watch online?

[darrylb123]

Just a comment.
The most surprising thing I learned was that a lot of people thought that Tasmota was just firmware for connecting to Home Assistant. Didn't know about rules and commands let alone Berry. No wonder ESPHome is seen as a better alternative.
As usual, don't read the doco, just go by what jumps out at you, ie from the GUI. These were seasoned Linux/Open source admins and developers!
Perhaps some thought into including a rule builder into the UI, even possibly a button that downloads a Berry program that can be removed when the rules are all built.

[s-hadinger]

Good suggestion, but we are lacking front-end developers in the Tasmota project to do all the js/css magic for such an editor. If you know volunteers...

[darrylb123]

Yes, should be able to. Leave it with me.

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On Sat, 20 Apr 2024, 3:11 am s-hadinger, ***@***.***> wrote: We discussed it and decided it would be best within the Tasmota documentation. Is it possible to convert the presentation to a browser friendly format to watch online? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#38 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABTSUVO62IFR4QYMUB4QCOLY6FF3PAVCNFSM6AAAAABEPR3VZGVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4TCNRZGEZDM> . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>