diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore
index d7ae58f9..ff65996f 100755
--- a/.gitignore
+++ b/.gitignore
@@ -167,4 +167,5 @@ hparams.yaml
 
 data/pretrained_models
 
-*.tar
\ No newline at end of file
+*.tar
+*.ckpt
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/setup.py b/setup.py
index 1bf92be6..4f9d7188 100755
--- a/setup.py
+++ b/setup.py
@@ -112,6 +112,7 @@
         'pyarrow',  # to read parquet, which is very handy for big datasets
         # for saving metrics to weights&biases (cloud service, free within limits)
         'wandb',
+        'huggingface_hub',  # login may be required
         'setuptools',  # no longer pinned
         'galaxy-datasets>=0.0.15'  # for dataset loading in both TF and Torch (see github/mwalmsley/galaxy-datasets)
     ]
diff --git a/tests/test_from_hub.py b/tests/test_from_hub.py
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..9bc1c115
--- /dev/null
+++ b/tests/test_from_hub.py
@@ -0,0 +1,38 @@
+import pytest
+
+import timm
+import torch
+
+
+def test_get_encoder():
+    model = timm.create_model("hf_hub:mwalmsley/zoobot-encoder-efficientnet_b0", pretrained=True)
+    assert model(torch.rand(1, 3, 224, 224)).shape == (1, 1280)
+
+
+def test_get_finetuned():
+    # checkpoint_loc = 'https://huggingface.co/mwalmsley/zoobot-finetuned-is_tidal/resolve/main/3.ckpt' pickle problem via lightning
+    # checkpoint_loc = '/home/walml/Downloads/3.ckpt'  # works when downloaded manually
+
+    from huggingface_hub import hf_hub_download
+
+    REPO_ID = "mwalmsley/zoobot-finetuned-is_tidal"
+    FILENAME = "4.ckpt"
+
+    downloaded_loc = hf_hub_download(
+        repo_id=REPO_ID,
+        filename=FILENAME,
+    )
+    from zoobot.pytorch.training import finetune
+    model = finetune.FinetuneableZoobotClassifier.load_from_checkpoint(downloaded_loc, map_location='cpu') #  hub_name='hf_hub:mwalmsley/zoobot-encoder-convnext_nano',
+    assert model(torch.rand(1, 3, 224, 224)).shape == (1, 2)
+
+
+
+# def test_get_finetuned_from_local():
+#     # checkpoint_loc = '/home/walml/repos/zoobot/tests/convnext_nano_finetuned_linear_is-lsb.ckpt'
+#     checkpoint_loc = '/home/walml/repos/zoobot-foundation/results/finetune/is-lsb/debug/checkpoints/4.ckpt'
+    
+#     from zoobot.pytorch.training import finetune
+#     # if originally trained with a direct in-memory checkpoint, must specify the hub name manually. otherwise it's saved as an hparam.
+#     model = finetune.FinetuneableZoobotClassifier.load_from_checkpoint(checkpoint_loc, map_location='cpu') # hub_name='hf_hub:mwalmsley/zoobot-encoder-convnext_nano', )
+#     assert model(torch.rand(1, 3, 224, 224)).shape == (1, 2)
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/zoobot/pytorch/estimators/define_model.py b/zoobot/pytorch/estimators/define_model.py
index d35dc151..d04ab746 100755
--- a/zoobot/pytorch/estimators/define_model.py
+++ b/zoobot/pytorch/estimators/define_model.py
@@ -480,4 +480,7 @@ def schema_to_campaigns(schema):
 if __name__ == '__main__':
     encoder = get_pytorch_encoder(channels=1)
     dim = get_encoder_dim(encoder, channels=1)
-    print(dim)
\ No newline at end of file
+    print(dim)
+
+
+    ZoobotTree.load_from_checkpoint
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/zoobot/pytorch/training/finetune.py b/zoobot/pytorch/training/finetune.py
index f1ad8b5e..0ef638fb 100644
--- a/zoobot/pytorch/training/finetune.py
+++ b/zoobot/pytorch/training/finetune.py
@@ -43,11 +43,17 @@ class FinetuneableZoobotAbstract(pl.LightningModule):
     Both :class:`FinetuneableZoobotClassifier` and :class:`FinetuneableZoobotTree`
     can (and should) be passed any of these arguments to customise finetuning.
 
-    You could subclass this class to solve new finetuning tasks (like regression) - see :ref:`advanced_finetuning`.
+    Any FinetuneableZoobot model can be loaded in one of three ways:
+        - HuggingFace name e.g. FinetuneableZoobotX(name='hf_hub:mwalmsley/zoobot-encoder-convnext_nano', ...). Recommended.
+        - Any PyTorch model in memory e.g. FinetuneableZoobotX(encoder=some_model, ...)
+        - ZoobotTree checkpoint e.g. FinetuneableZoobotX(zoobot_checkpoint_loc='path/to/zoobot_tree.ckpt', ...)
+
+    You could subclass this class to solve new finetuning tasks - see :ref:`advanced_finetuning`.
 
     Args:
-        checkpoint_loc (str, optional): Path to encoder checkpoint to load (likely a saved ZoobotTree). Defaults to None.
-        encoder (pl.LightningModule, optional): Alternatively, pass an encoder directly. Load with :func:`zoobot.pytorch.training.finetune.load_pretrained_encoder`.
+        name (str, optional): Name of a model on HuggingFace Hub e.g.'hf_hub:mwalmsley/zoobot-encoder-convnext_nano'. Defaults to None.
+        encoder (torch.nn.Module, optional): A PyTorch model already loaded in memory
+        zoobot_checkpoint_loc (str, optional): Path to ZoobotTree lightning checkpoint to load. Loads with Load with :func:`zoobot.pytorch.training.finetune.load_pretrained_encoder`. Defaults to None.
         encoder_dim (int, optional): Output dimension of encoder. Defaults to 1280 (EfficientNetB0's encoder dim).
         lr_decay (float, optional): For each layer i below the head, reduce the learning rate by lr_decay ^ i. Defaults to 0.75.
         weight_decay (float, optional): AdamW weight decay arg (i.e. L2 penalty). Defaults to 0.05.
@@ -61,26 +67,39 @@ class FinetuneableZoobotAbstract(pl.LightningModule):
 
     def __init__(
         self,
-        # can provide either zoobot_checkpoint_loc, and will load this model as encoder...
-        zoobot_checkpoint_loc=None,
+
+        # load a pretrained timm encoder saved on huggingface hub
+        # (aimed at most users, easiest way to load published models)
+        name=None,
+
         # ...or directly pass any model to use as encoder (if you do this, you will need to keep it around for later)
-        encoder=None,
+        # (aimed at tinkering with new architectures e.g. SSL)
+        encoder=None,  # use any torch model already loaded in memory (must have .forward() method)
+
+        # load a pretrained zoobottree model and grab the encoder (a timm model)
+        # requires the exact same zoobot version used for training, not very portable
+        # (aimed at supervised experiments)
+        zoobot_checkpoint_loc=None,  
+
+        # finetuning settings
         n_blocks=0,  # how many layers deep to FT
         lr_decay=0.75,
         weight_decay=0.05,
         learning_rate=1e-4,  # 10x lower than typical, you may like to experiment
         dropout_prob=0.5,
         always_train_batchnorm=False,  # temporarily deprecated
-        prog_bar=True,
-        visualize_images=False,  # upload examples to wandb, good for debugging
-        seed=42,
         n_layers=0,  # for backward compat., n_blocks preferred
         # these args are for the optional learning rate scheduler, best not to use unless you've tuned everything else already
         cosine_schedule=False,
         warmup_epochs=10,
         max_cosine_epochs=100,
         max_learning_rate_reduction_factor=0.01,
-        from_scratch=False
+        # escape hatch for 'from scratch' baselines
+        from_scratch=False,
+        # debugging utils
+        prog_bar=True,
+        visualize_images=False,  # upload examples to wandb, good for debugging
+        seed=42
     ):
         super().__init__()
 
@@ -95,17 +114,22 @@ def __init__(
         self.save_hyperparameters(ignore=['encoder']) # never serialise the encoder, way too heavy
             # if you need the encoder to recreate, pass when loading checkpoint e.g. 
             # FinetuneableZoobotTree.load_from_checkpoint(loc, encoder=encoder)
-
-        if zoobot_checkpoint_loc is not None:
-          assert encoder is None, 'Cannot pass both checkpoint to load and encoder to use'
-          self.encoder = load_pretrained_zoobot(zoobot_checkpoint_loc)
+        
+        if name is not None:
+            assert encoder is None, 'Cannot pass both name and encoder to use'
+            self.encoder = timm.create_model(name, pretrained=True)
+            self.encoder_dim = self.encoder.num_features
+
+        elif zoobot_checkpoint_loc is not None:
+            assert encoder is None, 'Cannot pass both checkpoint to load and encoder to use'
+            self.encoder = load_pretrained_zoobot(zoobot_checkpoint_loc)  # extracts the timm encoder
+            self.encoder_dim = self.encoder.num_features
         else:
-          assert zoobot_checkpoint_loc is None, 'Cannot pass both checkpoint to load and encoder to use'
-          assert encoder is not None, 'Must pass either checkpoint to load or encoder to use'
-          self.encoder = encoder
-
-        # TODO read as encoder property
-        self.encoder_dim = define_model.get_encoder_dim(self.encoder)
+            assert zoobot_checkpoint_loc is None, 'Cannot pass both checkpoint to load and encoder to use'
+            assert encoder is not None, 'Must pass either checkpoint to load or encoder to use'
+            self.encoder = encoder
+            # work out encoder dim 'manually'
+            self.encoder_dim = define_model.get_encoder_dim(self.encoder)
 
         # for backwards compat.
         if n_layers:
diff --git a/zoobot/pytorch/training/representations.py b/zoobot/pytorch/training/representations.py
index dd8912a1..1c5fab19 100644
--- a/zoobot/pytorch/training/representations.py
+++ b/zoobot/pytorch/training/representations.py
@@ -1,17 +1,53 @@
+import logging
 import pytorch_lightning as pl
 
+from timm import create_model
+
+
 class ZoobotEncoder(pl.LightningModule):
-    # very simple wrapper to turn pytorch model into lightning module
-    # useful when we want to use lightning to make predictions with our encoder
-    # (i.e. to get representations)
 
-    def __init__(self, encoder, pyramid=False) -> None:
-        super().__init__()
+    def __init__(self, encoder):
+        logging.info('ZoobotEncoder: using provided in-memory encoder')
         self.encoder = encoder  # plain pytorch module e.g. Sequential
-        if pyramid:
-            raise NotImplementedError('Will eventually support resetting timm classifier to get FPN features')
+
 
     def forward(self, x):
         if isinstance(x, list) and len(x) == 1:
             return self(x[0])
         return self.encoder(x)
+    
+    @classmethod
+    def load_from_name(cls, name: str):
+        """
+        e.g. ZoobotEncoder.load_from_name('hf_hub:mwalmsley/zoobot-encoder-convnext_nano')
+        Args:
+            name (str): huggingface hub name to load
+
+        Returns:
+            nn.Module: timm model
+        """
+        timm_model = create_model(name)
+        return cls(timm_model)
+
+
+
+
+
+class ZoobotEncoder(pl.LightningModule):
+    # very simple wrapper to turn pytorch model into lightning module
+    # useful when we want to use lightning to make predictions with our encoder
+    # (i.e. to get representations)
+
+    # pretrained_cfg, pretrained_cfg_overlay=timm_kwargs
+    def __init__(self, architecture_name=None, channels=None, timm_kwargs={}) -> None:
+        super().__init__()
+
+        logging.info('ZoobotEncoder: using timm encoder')
+        self.encoder = 
+
+        # if pyramid:
+        #     raise NotImplementedError('Will eventually support resetting timm classifier to get FPN features')
+
+
+# def save_timm_encoder():
+