So my name is Stefania. Chaplin, I am a University of Manchester computer science, graduate from the year 2013 and currently I am working as a Solutions architect at git lab which is my main job. And then I also do a lot of professional speaking and workshop under my own brand, which is Dev step Ops, which is a play on the word Dev setups.
Okay, great. So, um, Go go a little bit back in time to a high school. So, where does this interest in Computing from? Can you remember, what your first exposure to Computing was as a high school, or maybe even a primary school student? It was probably um, primary school because it would have been about 2001 when the original Sims was there, right?
And I was playing that. And originally, I had played PlayStation 1 Crash Bandicoot in 97. But in 2001, I was talking to an adult who worked in development and he was explaining to me that the way that a leaf moves has a mathematical equation and it's all based on computers.
And if I liked video games, then I would like computers. And so, it really started there, because actually, in my school, there was no computer science offering, we had I.T, but that was like, how to use Excel. So I got my interest when I was young and yeah playing a lot of PlayStation but I really got the knowledge at Manchester University right.
And you did I so foreign that I guess that influenced what sort of a levels you did so you did I did further maths, right? Yeah. Maths for the maths about G Chemistry economics, right? Um, no computer science offering, but there is now I do talks with my school and there is about five, it's an all girls school, there's five or six people doing computer science out of about 100.
So, And I suppose the kind of interesting thing in a in a single set school is that subjects aren't gendered? In the way they are in something co-educational schools where like physics is seen as being a boy subject or computer science or whatever, which is can be nonsense. So you kind of you just choose based on what you're interested in what you like, what you?
Yes, exactly. But there are, um, you know, in terms of the demand for the classes, there are some stereotypes in that Engllaish was very popular. So a lot of the humanities history of art philosophy, you know, they they all had, you know, 20 30 sometimes, 40 students and further matters had five.
So I got to know all five fairly well. How many in maths uh how many in maths? I think maths was probably a bit bigger like maybe 20 to 30, but but further than that's five of us and that was that five because I remember further mass at school is this thing?
People started at the beginning and then slowly, the numbers would win two years. We were consistent all five for two years but it's yeah, you do, uh, Of module. My days. We did 12 modules in two years versus six modules in two years. So double mats. So that kind of being at school.
Uh, when you're applying, you, you're doing your a levels and you think, uh, what made you think? Actually, this is a subject because obviously, not study, the a level. What made you think? This is a step that I want to spend. Yeah, four years at University doing so, um, I was quite fortunate in that I thought, quite practically and strategically and a lot of my peer group, I speak to them in five, ten years later, and they're like, I'm really jealous you did computer science.
Because when I picked my subjects, it was 2007. We've had like something like 15 years of uninterrupted growth and, and then all of a sudden, financial recession, Lehman Brothers, the entire economy is, is in a meltdown. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to UNI now. So I'm going to skip most of this, but, um, when I was in 2007, I thought I can't write essays.
So that was a lot of subjects off the list and then I thought to myself computers will be in the future no matter what. So, if I do them, I will be very employable, right? So, it was literally more about I can do this. Yeah, it was a really practical decision because I didn't, I Do I didn't?
Uh yeah. Did couldn't write essays so um I was like okay I'll just do a subject which was actually really hard. But I'm very grateful because a lot of my peer group, I was talking to them when they're about 25 and they're like, damn. I wish I did computers instead of business because business is great.
But actually everything is Technical and computers now. Yeah, good. Okay. Um, so you write you started in 2009, 2009, and you spent four years in Manchester? We talk a little bit about that. Um, how did you find being a student studying and didn't meet with you? How did you meet with your expectations?
Yeah. So um, I had applied to a couple of different universities and a lot of them accepted which was good. I managed to do as my favourite. I'm glad I came here and one of the deciding points was in the open days, they said, um, the chooser said, uh, we will teach you even if you don't know anything.
Um, I'd also applied to Cambridge and that was not the same level of expectation. So I Knew by coming to Manchester that, okay, at least they know that I've never done Computing before. So I'll have that level. The expectation was slightly different when I came here because a lot of other people there, a lot of foreign students who had studied it at a level equivalent, a lot of people.
Oh yeah, even lower, you know, there were people whose, you know, dads worked at Google. So um, I was definitely in a minority and what I found was, there are were some other people but there was a bit of a drop off in first year. Of the people who um hadn't studied computers and then changed to yeah, to more to a business.
So um, I was very glad that I managed to get a supportive network of friends and that we all had slightly different skill sets. So we it was a really collaborative environment in order to get, uh, where we needed to be with our grades. And you, uh, did you look at Doing internships in a placement while you're an undergraduate student.
So I did, um, I did look at it a bit, I had a bit, I had a lot of stuff going on with my mental health and first, and second year. So originally, I was on the placement year, but then I didn't quite make the grades. Uh, so then I just did an ordinary course, uh, so just just just studying And then I'd done a little bit of work experience, kind of when I was at school, but it wasn't computers related, right?
Okay. So, uh, that takes us through to. So you've done say let's say, you've done, you've done two years of this. So a lot, I've done two years of computer science coming into your final year in computer science. What was your final year project on? Um, so I was the mentality, I was like I can do this when you left.
Okay I was really determined to finish because actually at that point I was like do I just change subject? But no I was committed to completing. So what I chose to do was a slightly A more of a hybrid topic. So it was actually my supervisor was in the school of I think biology right.
Because my topic was deterministic and probabilistic cellular automata, right? Um so my final year project I actually created a simulation. So I think it worked with my video game stuff where I had blue was the C and then I had fish and the fish could move and breed and then I had sharks and they could eat the fish and also move and breed and starve.
And then that's a known thing. And then my project was to add a third level. Predator. So a super shark and then what was quite interesting with the project which Maps up to real world is that for to get the populations to oscillate so that we could actually have all three on on the stimulation.
I had to have 40 fish, right? And uh, like a fraction of a percent of super shark, right? Because actually when you have, if you think about, you know, the relationship of, I don't know, um, Caterpillars to rabbits to Hawks. You're gonna have a lot of caterpillars to sustain one Hawk.
So actually a lot of what I had in my project lined up with real life which was really cool, right? So, is this based on, is it, like Game of Life or is it, is it? You know what the, um, underneath it? It was, uh, well, it was cellular automata it was, um, it was basically if you have a grade each cell can they can do specific patterns, right?
So in nature, you get a lot of like the swirls, like Fibonacci. Line was. Yeah, pray and present the next level after that is kind of pro-predator, which is what it was modelled on. Okay? So I was looking at, like, rabbits and wolves in the 1800s and how their populations, it's like, oh lots of rabbits, small, wolves than they eat the rabbits, the rabbits go down.
Then they will starve and then they can less wolves more rabbits and then it continues. So you continue to agree. Yeah, you've survived You've you tackled some adversity on you doing a degree, which is quite common, I think people have different struggles to get through What did you, what?
What was your path from then into an answer? What was your your first thought on graduating? What did you start? So, I was really happy because I got a 2-1, which is kind of, you know, I say what you need, but, um, it was, it was great to be in that situation but I don't think I probably hadn't sought it out, but I hadn't really received the careers advice and that I thought the only job I could do was be a developer.
I thought. Oh, I have a computer science degree. I'm going to code and because I had hadn't done great in my second year, C. Want to be, I didn't really want to be a developer. So in some ways I kind of turned my back a little bit to computer science.
When I was at University, I got a job in the traffic centre in salvages doing makeup. So for a while after dinner I was like, I was a makeup artist and I got to travel a bit and do like weddings and photo fashion shoots and photo shoots and stuff like that.
Um, and then I was also also being part of home fitness instructor which was also my uni job. And then I did that after and then after a while, I got a real job, I say a real job a desk job but that was actually working in sales. So that was like, oh you've uh, calling people.
Oh, you've returned to this event? Would you like a meeting? Um, then after that, I worked in Recruitment and that actually taught you a lot about people, and actually, even if you work in Tech, no matter what your job is, it's really useful to understand people, uh, technology people and culture and how to interact.
And then the brexit both happens. That was 2017 and I was like, oh my God, I'm a girl that can code. I'm a unicorn. So I It was actually in Poland. Um, and so I moved there, my salary like decimated I think I was on like and that was good for that but I was on like 600 euros a month.
So um for full time which there was fine, because my rent was only 100 a month, but I came back to London once a month and I blow like my month's salary. Just like seeing friends. Just paying just paying a two. Yeah, exactly. Just paying for the, for the wizard.
Um, and so, and so, yeah. And then, after that, I came to London and then I got a job as a Solutions, architecting cyber security, which is kind of where I've stayed in different companies. But for the last like, six, seven years because it works for me, the combination of technology and client facing and like problem solving.
Every day is different listening to customers. You know, what are, what are their problems? You know, what's the new tech? So actually I think that skill set's quite It's it, you know, I mean you say oh you're a girl that codes and that's great but actually Uh that's a valuable skill, whatever your gender.
But the other part of it is, if you can do both the technical side and the talking to customers. Yes. Then you're like gold best to an employer because 100 so actually I I didn't say but my degree was computer science and business management. So when I had done it with that intention because I'm like oh if I can speak Tech and speak business I will be very employable and it was interesting.
I know we were discussing this before the podcast but I had spoken with some of my colleagues who were all incredibly Technical and awesome 50 year old men. And they said um you know, one of the most important thing is um wait where was it? I'll find the slide.
It was um, people people culture process and tools in that order because actually um a lot of my colleagues you know very technical the way they got into my job. I moved around a lot. Um they started in a grad scheme and they were a software engineer and they got really good so then maybe they're a senior or maybe a principal oh and then they might become a manager and that's where you can have some Peter says yes or no, very structured to having to deal with people.
It's like, oh, this person wants to get promoted or I need more budget or that demand is unreasonable. So actually, uh, communication and people is, uh, is actually so important in Tech, which I don't think most people think about because I mean, it's probably it's partly an academic. I think computer science tends to see the world the other way around, it's tools then process then culture and people from the bottom up, or exactly.
Yeah. Because part of my job is I work with Enterprise organisations. So I work with all of the kind of the brands and the, the brand and companies that people know, and it literally is all about, oh, okay. You wanna you want to create secure software faster? Okay, great.
That's the objective. Okay, uh, so what's, what's the, what's the culture? Like? What are your people like, how, how do you do that at the moment? And what you find is silos, you find, um, you know, bottlenecks, um, and actually, um, and if you want to change things, if you want to drive behavioural change, that's all about people.
It's like, oh, we're gonna rip out this T.
More. I work in Tech. The more it's about it's about people. And I think if I was you know, if you were still a loan engineer, doing your own startup and just doing tackle day, that's great. But at some point you will and then you need to talk to investors.
Exactly. You need to talk to investors, you'll need to, you know, hire the people. So um so yeah, it's um, it's interesting. You've said from the academic point, you view it the other way because you're in the world of business. It's um, it's kind of it's gone a bit of a loop.
It. So, um, so you you're working in a cyber security company and then you went from the cyber security to get language to another security company. So I was first, I was working looking at dependencies, right? So, for example, if you're using Java and you want to use some open source like a like log4j, and you'll go to Maven Central.
Um, so, but unfortunately, sometimes those software packages can have vulnerabilities. Yeah, so doing the scanning and also they can have different licences. So, um, that was that job? Uh, then the next one, I moved to was a company called secure code Warrior and that was about uh training developers in security because the back story for that was the CEO was a pen tester, a penetration tester who got tired of seeing the same results all the time.
So it's like, oh, let's go to the source, let's train the developers, so they don't introduce the vulnerabilities. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then after that, then at git lab, which is um, a devsecops platform. So looking at development source, code management, continuous integration, the security, and
Let's backtrack a bit here. So, uh, I'm people listening to this podcast, should know what git is and what GitHub is. But so, uh, so git is this distributed Version Control software. Which lots of people are that of GitHub is the is the is a an application that's built on top of that.
Effectively started in 2008 bought by Microsoft about 10 years later in 2018. And how about, we think about 6 000 employees when it got bought by Microsoft. So it's now, part of the Microsoft Empire. Gitlab is a different story. So you started in about 2011, we think About 2 000 employees.
And your focus is different to GitHub. So can you talk about how Caleb does. Really simplify things. So when I think of gits I almost think of it as a file extension. So a bit like you have an MP3 or MP4, you have a DOT get and that's how you're storing your source code.
So it's it's just a way, it's a way, it's a way of storing code. Um, then you had two companies who started up around, you know, within a few years of each other you had GitHub and then git lab and they both did the same thing to begin with which was the source code management.
So looking after source code and then what git lab started to do, was it started to Branch out. So one of the decisions they made, I think it was about 2013. They had a continuous integration, so they had the pipelines and they had the source codes. And, you know, the the co-founders were all talking about themselves, like, oh, I think we should combine them and the CEOs, like, I don't think we should.
But the other co-founder was like, we really should. And actually that was one of the best decisions and the CEO talks about something. I nearly missed out on combining it because actually having one platform. So you have, uh, yeah, Source.
Developer experience. So yes, it has the source code and you can have other stuff like security plugins and I have something called GitHub actions, which is also for the pipelines. But uh, get even when you see the them in conferences, the uh, the kind of the banners GitHub, is a, you know, AI powered developer platform.
Whilst we are an AI, powered Dev SEC Ops platform, right? Okay, good. So, can you talk a little bit about what you're right? I mean, I know a little bit about this ready, but can you talk about you touched? What gitlab is. So, can you tell you a little bit about what your role within?
Gitlab is going out and talk to clients? Yeah. So um, it's an interesting title because sometimes A Solutions architect is someone who literally just looks at architectures all day and that would be if I was working at a bank. For example, I probably would do that. Whilst I am a solution's architect out of vendor.
So gitlab is a platform that people can buy. And so what I will do is I will speak to customers whether it's at, um, events or conferences. I do a lot of public speaking, uh, but also people like, oh, can I have?
Licence and then they'll be using gitlab, it's like, oh well, you know, gitlab's a massive platform. What do you actually want to do? What problems are you trying to solve? Um, and then I'll work with them. Oh, we found a problem or how do you do this? So very kind of Um, advisory kind of role.
Um, and then, hopefully, uh, when, when they're very happy, the technical part, people are all happy. Then I'll do my little thumbs up to my sales counterpart, and then they will talk with someone on the customer side about licencing pricing that the Contracting. Whilst my focus is very slowly on the technical.
You can't some people call it pre-sale. I was going to say pre-sales. Yeah, it's pre-sales but you can also have post sales and that's when um, that's after after the purchase. So um, so yeah it's really good because it's very customer facing. I get to do a lot of travel.
I get to speak to a lot of different people, but it does require you need to have some custom facing but interestingly most people in my team are introverts so it's not a case of oh you need to be chatty and talk to people. No no actually introverts are very good at listening and kind of they're listening.
They're like have you have you considered this or what about this? So actually being actually complimentary skills. Right? Yeah. What's going to say now? Um so oh, the other thing I was going to say is actually, it's kind of, it's similar role to consultancy in that. You're saying, so if you you take your example of the bank, if you're a Solutions architect in a bank, you only ever see the inside of a bank.
Okay. It's very big and there's lots of different parts to it but you're just working for a bank whereas in your role and in Consulting roles as well, you're working the kind of interest is, you're not just working with different people. You're working different in different organisations so you get to see inside all these organisations and how they work.
Yeah. So that's really interesting. And and this in gitlab is bigger says, about 2, 000 people. And I am focused mainly UK, but I do a bit of nordics in my last company. It was a series B startup. Um, and now about 120 people globally, so I was the only essay for the whole of Europe for Enterprise and mid-market.
So I not only covered the whole of Europe, so all of the different countries but also all of the different levels. So I could be speaking to someone with 5 000 developers or speaking to someone with. Um, you know, with 50 developers. Although after about a year, I did tell my team.
Okay. I really need to focus on the
Interesting. Because yeah, one day I'm talking to a bank then I'm talking to uh, you know, elect today. Uh, well, I don't know if I should say but I was talking to a very, uh, large. Um, Um, car slash defence company. That I know very well and like, that was another moment.
I think it was during lockdown. I was doing a meeting and it was with um this was a few years ago, I was with Mercedes-Benz and that's like my favourite car. So I was like oh wow he's speaking to Mercedes-Benz. This is so cool. And like stuff like I've been to the Lego office.
I've been to the Ikea office so you I get to know like all the brands and hear their challenges and it's interesting because everyone thinks that oh we're so Cutting Edge but actually because of Behavioural change and process and things take time. People are still on the journey to get where they need to be.
And especially sort of, I think I know you get this with lots of different roles. In computer sciences, you get to see your stuff being used by lots and over time once they adopt, uh, once you've proven that behaviour change, you get to see your solution that you've architected being used.
Thousands more more people, I guess. So it's kind of quite good job satisfaction I guess from that point. Yeah, it's really interesting as well. Because yeah, especially at conferences, we usually gitlab has a slot, we'll usually try and take a customer with us and get them to talk about their Journey.
So it's like, you know, what was life. Like, before git lab? We had all these problems. There were silos, it was slow, it was horrible. And then this is how we adopted it and this is what we use and these are our results and everything is awesome. And now we're, we have some case studies.
I think it's Goldman Sachs went from deploying once a month to like a thousand times a week, right? Like stuff like that. So, um, there's some really cool statistics development integration. Shouldn't be releasing things once a month or yeah. Even once a week you can do it more often more often than that.
- Okay good. So um, I think have we have we covered everything we want to say about gitlab. I think we probably I think sir gitlab's awesome. Come find me the stickers. I'll leave some for you. Um and I guess they have I I don't know too much. Do they?
Do they have a kind of graduate scheme or internship scheme? I think so. I think they might have a, they might have a I think they do accept some interns or grads, but I know quite a few other companies like that. I've select, for example, Ikea, they're hiring at like, intern and graduate level.
So, yeah, find me on LinkedIn. I always know, I always know about some roles. We'll put that we'll put that note in there. Yeah, show notes. So the last few questions then, too, we've got a bit of time left but to talk about standard questions. I ask all guests on the show.
The first one is, um, I call it minority report. So you're not a member of a minority as a big woman because that's the population, but you're you're underrepresented in the tech industry as a whole. So could you say a little bit about your experience of how that's been?
The gender balance when you were here was probably less or similar to what it is now. And then also, Your journey from graduating to where you are now. What's been your experience of being being a woman? Yeah, so um, when I was at, um, in 2009 when I was in first year and it did get better because I did see more young women in the Halls, but about 300 people in first year Java and I counted, and I was one of the eight women.
So just under three percent. So, maybe some, maybe some women was sick that day. But it was, uh, it was, um, very low. I said, I did, I did see it over the few years, you know, get better. And I didn't really notice it too much, you know, at University because I had, I had a strong enough friendship group outside, um, outside outside of uni, uh, sorry outside of computer science.
I did have two of my best friends. Well, women, so, you know, I found that I stuck, you know, two of us stuck together. And so, I think in computer science at Uni level, I didn't really see it as like an obstacle or a problem. I, I just remember, um, and this even still happens to this day.
I got a message from a friend, like, six months ago. Uh, someone will be like, oh, I study computer science at Manchester and people be like, oh do you know Steph and they're like oh that girl. Um so yeah, so they used to have a lot. I remembered running in late to like a lab session and I litres burst in the door and like all the guys just looked up at me and Shark.
I was like hi sorry, just running a bit late. Run to my desk next to my other female friend.
Everyone's 18. So So that was an experience in itself. Then when I joined the world of work I think, well I mentioned I worked in more kind of sales commercial roles and the gender balance was better, but it was just very, very Cutthroat. So my gender had nothing to do with it, but it was like okay you want my help more than five minutes, you're cutting into my time.
So so it wasn't that great, an environment for that. And then when I started in the world of work and this has happened to me twice in two different drugs, I joined the team call, like the first team call Monday or the Friday whenever it is. And I look around the zoom and I'm like, ah, I'm the only woman here so that happened in my first ever place of employment.
And I even remember we had a big company offsite of all the technical people and I found one of the product donors and then I was like, oh, I have a question. He's like, okay, we don't start till Monday. But okay, I'm like, are there any women on your team?
Because I'm the only one on my team and I don't, I've only joined like three months ago and then he was like, well, yeah, no we have Webster. Yeah, yeah, we have four. And this was obviously, they were non-technical like people in, you know, marketing in HR, but amongst product, engineering and solutions architect.
Did I think maybe, you know, davas Founders. But I remember I was interviewing and I was on LinkedIn. I was sat next to my boyfriend who worked in Tech, and then I was looking at the people in the London office, and he's like, did you just filter for women?
I'm like, no, this is their London office, it's all women, and it's awesome. And I think that was a secure code Warrior because it was a training platform and we were selling like a lot to HR or, you know, it was a training platform with technical content. Technical requirements, one as high.
So. Um, and then so, so yeah, there was more women than men, right? And then I joined gitlab as the first women and I joined that team call. And I'm like, okay, great. I'm gonna have to have an opinion about like, I don't know, lawnmowers or Sports or beer, but then thankfully, actually, since I've joined git lab, we now I checked in a team call, I was like the first of ten um, out of 10 people.
And then now I checked and it was like I think it was like seven out of 23 women including two of the three managers, right? So and that's improved in the course of two and a half years so definitely You know, I'm very aware of it. But I haven't seen it as too much of a hindrance because usually, at least, you know, at Uni, and also in my jobs people are like, oh wow, you're a woman.
Like, how's it going? Do you need any help? Whilst actually, when I was in sales and recruitment, it was like, everyone was just wanting to get to the top whilst in Tech. People are a lot more collaborative, right? Okay. I think the gender biology point, it sounds like the gender balance was very bad when you were here.
It's got a bit better since. But it's still, I think, I think it's somewhere between 15 and 20, which is still still would put you in a minority if you're a woman. Yeah, so what two questions are. So what could, what can the universe, what could universities do to make?
Computing and perhaps similar, stem subjects more welcoming to women. And then, is there anything employers can do to make Uh, technology as a as a profession more welcoming tool. Yeah. So I think um, it's a lot to do with visibility. So I asked this question to the, in my first job to the board member, I was like, hi.
I've just founded women at my company that's four of us. You know, what advice would you give? And and for perspective this this is someone uh, from America who actually, uh, well take dated Bill Gates for a while at Uni. So, you know, been in the industry for a long time and what she said, which is quite impactful, was, you know, visibility, like keep doing what you're doing.
So I do a lot of public speaking because a lot of my thing is like, hey, you don't have to, well, you don't have to look like you're from computer science to do computer science. Because I think there is like quite a stereotype about. You have to be this type of person with this type of brain, and actually, what I've seen working.
Well, in the industry is when I go to developer conferences, um, it's actually about 25 women. I'm like, in shock, I have to queue for the bathroom again, like this is ridiculous. Security and also in Ops as well, it's a lot less. So I'm like, is there something that's drawing?
Maybe it's the front end. The visual that could be drawing more women at that end and then also what I see which is another depressing, is that the minute I'm talking to senior leadership or if I'm talking to a conference and it's more managerial level, you know, I showed a photo to my dad, he's like, oh yeah, they're all men.
And they don't look that young because there are a lot of little kind of bald spots at the back. But yeah, in terms of what people can do better, I think it's yeah, very much about, uh, visibility. So, having kind of case studies or successful stories or like, this is why I talk about my experience a lot because I'm like, I did computer science because I thought it would make me successful, which I guess it kind of has.
But I didn't know what I was doing and I did want to drop out a lot, but I didn't. I stuck through it and buy a customer facing side. I found something that works for me. So I think, um, like I've seen, you know, at schools they're starting, I think they it's now compulsory to start Computing from one like GCSE or younger, which I think is great, at least in the UK.
Thing. Yeah, having I mean, what you're already doing with your podcast having these success stories, um, I think that can definitely help and then I've been a benefit and receiver of a lot of mentorship. So I'm always if anyone on the podcast wants to reach out. I'm always happy to like have a call and then help out how I can great.
Okay, good. I mean the sort of flip side to the visibility thing, I mean I try and do what I can to make things more visible. Then you the danger is that and you've probably been on the receiving end of this is then people are always you're the go-to person when somebody wants to ask about, you know, why it's like being a woman in Tech and A lot more presenting than Your male counterparts who yeah.
Sure. They'll do presenting. But perhaps not as much as you're being asked all the time and yeah say no actually, I can't. It's enough. It's, you know, I've done my bit now. So this is a real thing and you see it around events. Like say, if you have international women's day, or if you have events aimed at other underrepresented groups, and guess what, if we take, you know, iwd, it's like, oh guess what?
It's the women that are organising. It, it's the women who are speaking. It's the women who are staying late. It's the, you know, it's almost like, oh, you're a minority. Here's some extra work so that we can get more of you, you know? So that that is a real problem.
Um, in the industry, uh, what I'll say is, I am here for free because I like University of Manchester I charge for my time. So if people do want me for speaking, then I will, um, I well, I expect them to pay me for my time because, I mean, are creating the slides I have might have to travel.
So, that's how I get around that. It's like, supply demand. I'm like, you know, okay, if I have a lot of Demands, uh, then yeah, then it's just more, I just made it more.
The right things in this base and that you're saying that it's compared to previous companies, you've worked, it's it's doing the right things. So if we look at gitlab specifically, they have some really good policies. Uh, for I say, for all people, uh, we there's no office anywhere, so we all work remote.
So, um, so I I really like that and that was, you know, that's been since like 2011. So it means that if you are, you know, say if you're a carer for your family, whether it's younger Generations or older Generations, you can then uh, you can then, you know, work that into your schedule because the second thing is we're a big believer in asynchronous work.
So it's not the case of you're expected to be at your laptop. Nine to five with the little slack or teams Emoji you know on it's like okay um everyone is a is a manager of themselves and you need to you know work with other people but you just you know very clear like okay I'm just popping out to you know get kids from school.
I'll be back later or okay. I I I'm gonna get all this work done. I'll have it done by Wednesday midnight because on you know Tuesday morning I'm travelling. And then I have some
Bold because yeah, if you if you do have family commitments, you know, we've cut it down slightly. It used to be one day a month called family and friends day, the whole company would shut down. Now it's one day a quarter, which is still only four days up and that's the other one unlimited holiday.
So, um, so having like all these policies in place, um, has really, um, really helped because I think, um, I know there's been a lot of mandates like all over the world, um, but having forcing people to go back to the office, it does tend to More of a strong for women because they usually have more of the family responsibilities.
Um so yeah, I'm a big advocate of remote work for that reason. Okay, that's good. Good to hear. So So that I think that is there. Anything else we want to say about being a woman in Computing? I think we've covered, I think we've covered, um, a lot of it.
Um, but it's, uh, it's I'll talk. I don't, I can't go into too much detail because I don't know about the other experience. But for example, I have enough friends, but I know that, um, I have I benefit from being a white woman and actually that women, uh, you know, as well as you know, there's, there's obviously gender, um, you know, gender, there's ethnicity.
And, as a white woman, I'm treated differently than other women because I've spoken to, there's a senior director in my company, and we were talking and she was like, yeah, no. I get, uh, well, you know, we we're gonna do cliches but, you know, she gets man interrupted a lot.
Um, or people will talk over her, or people won't listen to her. I don't have that problem as well, because of the type of personality I have. But then on the flip side, what I have had is um, I've had um clients um, stare different parts of my body.
And I'm like, how is this acceptable?
Can do and especially as a man, being an ally and just listening to this. Or for example, if you notice that somewhere a woman is constantly being interrupted or spoken over, be like, oh, actually, I'd love to hear what you know, what Rashmi has to say or what's demania has to say.
Or if you if you notice observed problematic, Behaviour then, you know, call her out, you know, for it is because yeah, my experience hasn't been too bad but, you know, I can only speak from my lens and what I hear. Okay good. All right, so the next thing is then, Bit personal to, to say, Ask all guests recommend us, one tune, one podcast, one book and one film that they recommend our listeners.
Go and read. Watch listen to Um, or yeah. So let's start with is there. One piece of music that? Yeah. You recommend our listeners, listen to and why is that piece of music important to you? I am that's such a heart. You you prepped me for these questions before, it is so hard.
But, uh, there was a song that I discovered, I think it was last year as my, the year, before 2022's most listened to song on my Spotify, uh, because it's called I listen to it at the beginning of February, and it was like, the first sunny day and and I was going for like a morning.
I think it was a pandemic walk. Um, and it's called Summer came my way. I can't remember, who it's by. It's, by Greg, someone or I can't remember. We'll take that out. Yeah, I'm sure. Um, but um, it just was like, when I needed to hear and then sometimes I listen to it when I'm just feeling low because I'm like, it's okay.
Summer is coming summer came my way. Um, so that's one of my goatees, okay, I don't know if you listen to podcast at all or radio at all, I don't really listen to podcast but um I know that one of my favourite um,
Favourite books. He does a podcast. Right? So I might I could maybe combine. Yeah. Yeah, um. So um Annie's also got a Netflix TV series too but um I watched earlier this year, there was a guy called ramit seti and he's done a New York, best out seller Times book and it's called how I think it's called.
I will teach you to be rich but the Netflix series was how to live your rich life and as someone who never really knew what to do with like, oh, yeah, savings and money and investment. He and also, you know oh how am I on my credit card the whole time and like having I had quite poor financial psychology.
Um, he does a podcast and also with his book, all of a sudden, um, I've made really different financial decisions because it's all about conscious spending. It's like okay if you want to, if you wanna, you know, go to a five star hotel, great go for it. But, you know, make sure you can afford it and actually if you want a holiday and five stars, maybe you have a smaller apartment or take public transport.
Um so that literal book changed my life. I only read it last year but all of a sudden it's like even my parents I like was living.
Moved in with my parents. I don't live by myself because I travel six months a year. Do I need to live by myself? And then because of that, I have money for a deposit now and it's like, wow. And then, and then that's going to become a buy to let.
And then, that will get me closer to retiring. So I can spend more time and, you know, energy with my family and friends rather than the corporate grind, right? So that's been a game changer. I nearly put it in my talk, actually, I'm like, this is a tech talk, but like, here's some financial advice.
Okay, good stuff. So, that's the, that's the podcast down and the book and the book, right? Okay. What was the author's name? Uh, Ramit seti? Ramit seti. Okay, we'll make another of that. Yeah. And then, the last one then is one film, one film, you recommend. Oh, could be something recent could be something.
I know what, what, what, what? I did see a film the other day, and I was like, this is so good. Um, okay, so I quite like, I say, children films like Pixar like, you know, Pixar DreamWorks, those kind of things and I saw it, I was in Las Vegas with work a few months ago.
So it's on the American Netflix but on our one, but, um, the latest post
Know, mortality prioritisation, it has other things in it like, you know, orphan stories privilege, you know, death. Um so it's actually really good and because it's taken on board, a lot of the like, more anime style Graphics. It's actually really cool. So um, that was like a sleeper here.
I actually was really impressed. Put some boots, The Last Wish great. Last question to wrap up then is Uh, a colleague of mine in the physics department has invented a time travel machine, which she, uh, or she has lent us and, um, If you could step into that time machine travel back to Meet yourself for the first year undergraduate.
What? I know this is part of the subtitle of your talk today. Um, what advice would you offer? A younger Stefania. How did you wish you'd known? Then that, you know. Now God do you know, I I get asked this question a lot and especially since reading that book I mentioned I think if younger me saw the me of a few years ago like yeah, you're travelling and you live by yourself.
Life is awesome. I think if like younger, we met me of like this year, be like what happened to you? So what I would say to that younger person is like, really this book came out a few years ago, read it read it younger, probably say, invest 10 of your income, no matter what.
Then you'll be fine. That would probably be the first and I'd be like, what's investment? I don't know what that means. So so that's a disclaimer. But um, if specifically first year because that's when I was like, why am I here? I don't understand what's going on and everyone else seems to know everything and I'm still stuck on if else loops and stuff like that.
So it would probably be I would tell myself that I can get through this and that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and actually to um, you know whatever, you know, the world is your oyster in terms of once you can articulate what you want and then you can I say, man,
Manifesting your goals because once you know what you want, that's the what then you can figure out the Tactical, the how the implementation. You can get yourself to where you want. You are the only thing you you are your own mental barrier. You create these like stories of no.
And actually a lot of the stuff is in your head and actually, if you just focus on what you want and how to get there, then, um then you're going to be okay. Learnt through trial and error in my 20s and 30s. So I guess kind of in part that we've been then knowing that for example, you're maybe one of the reasons that you struggle at University was initially was because you're thinking I've got I'm going to be a software developer and if I'm going to be a software developer, I'm going to have to be really good at this second GFC.
Yeah, and I'm struggling with that a bit. So therefore I'm I'm in all sorts of trouble but had you known then? Yeah. Actually, and I think I see this in quite a lot of students. They assume that software developer is the only role or the main role. There are lots of other roles around software development, require you to have some of that technical skill so you can talk to developers.
Yeah. But then also have some of the communication skills you've talked about and being able to work people as well. So, exactly there's so many different types of jobs out there. Um, somewhere where I, if I'm talking about women somewhere, I see a lot of women being successful is actually a product manager because you're designing, you're listening to the customers, you're designing the product.
And then you tell the developers, okay? We're gonna need this feature or or
Standing of, you know, what is possible and what is not. So, so yeah, it's uh, definitely an interesting space to me. Good. Okay, I think that's a that's a good note to finish on. So um, thank you Stefania for coming on the show. And, Yeah, thanks again. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
It was a pleasure and you have anyone who's listening wants to reach out? I'll leave my contact details because. Yeah, I'm always about helping the Next Generation. Uh so yeah, thank you for having me and I'll leave Duncan with some gitlab stickers. So thank you great. Thank you. It's okay.