IrcLog2008 08 04

19:21:47 <sgk_> 2124: 19:22:16 <sgk_> brandon, it's the open filehandles thing? 19:22:21 yeah 19:22:23 <GregNoel> I think he's getting the errors because the shims aren't being installed 19:22:33 I reproduced the bug localluy 19:22:43 <GregNoel> With the shims? 19:22:57 I haven't figured out whether I can reproduce the problem with Microsoft's CL.EXE yet 19:23:03 err wihtout 19:23:10 it might be something specific to what they are doing 19:23:17 <sgk_> if it's without then it's a known issue 19:23:26 <sgk_> and we need to fix the other bug where the message isn't getting printed 19:23:49 <GregNoel> Yes, the fact that he found the bug suggests that he should have been getting the message. 19:23:51 <sgk_> i also think we probably need to make those shims Yet Another configurable item 19:24:15 <GregNoel> Why would you want to turn them off? 19:24:20 <sgk_> Carsten's message on the ML about compiler output getting lost when redirected is because of the shims, I think 19:24:28 I think it might only applicable to applications that CreateFile with non default filesharing params, but I need to narrow it down more yet 19:25:21 <sgk_> but that would need to be confirmed 19:25:30 whats the "shim"? 19:25:33 <sgk_> that aside, where does it leave us for 2124? 19:25:45 <GregNoel> Hmmm... Sounds to me like Brandon should be working on it 19:25:58 I think its a real bug that probably won't get fixed in the 1.0.x timeframe 19:25:59 <sgk_> we replace the Python open() call (builtin.open()) with our own wrapper that calls the real underlying open() 19:26:00 <GregNoel> shim ==> code in Platform/win32 that replaces open() and file() 19:26:19 <sgk_> and then calls the win32 api to supress the filehandle inheritance 19:27:19 can verify while we move on to other bugs 19:27:29 <sgk_> okay, cool 19:27:29 <GregNoel> 2124: Brandon, research? 19:27:34 <sgk_> done 19:27:51 <GregNoel> We'll see if he comes up with anything before we go 19:27:50 <sgk_> 2155: 19:28:10 <sgk_> okay 19:28:18 <GregNoel> 2155: consensus invalid 19:28:23 <sgk_> 2155: sounds like we agree to deprecate it 19:29:07 <sgk_> guess that would mean holding this open for now ut changing it to track the eventual deprecation? 19:29:12 <GregNoel> OK, I'll untangle it; probably put a note in 2126 19:29:29 <sgk_> cool, thanks 19:29:26 is there a naming convention for internal vs external functions? 19:29:33 <sgk_> not really 19:29:53 <sgk_> the closest we have is that, in general, public functions have CamelCase spelling 19:30:02 <GregNoel> External usually have caps; internal not, but it's not completely reliable 19:30:07 <sgk_> but there are plenty of things like subst() that have gained currency 19:30:34 * sgk_ wishes he had GregNoel's gift for brevity 19:30:53 <sgk_> i always take a lot of extra words to say things... 19:30:56 * GregNoel can't type fast, so he learned to be brief 19:31:28 <sgk_> okay, 2155: GregNoel to handle 19:31:46 <GregNoel> done 19:31:57 <GregNoel> 2157? 19:32:20 <sgk_> 2157: fixing ^C in configure context in general is WONTFIX 19:32:42 <sgk_> but making sure we don't record an interrupt as a cached failure is... 1.x p3? 19:33:07 <GregNoel> it's probably the same thing; a partial store of something 19:33:49 <GregNoel> I'll go with looking at it again as 1.x p3 19:33:58 <sgk_> done 19:34:16 <GregNoel> 2158? 19:34:19 <sgk_> 2158: consensus 1.0.1 p4 anybody 19:34:25 <GregNoel> done 19:34:39 <GregNoel> so who? 19:34:41 <sgk_> OMG we got through the current issues 19:34:54 <GregNoel> only four! 19:35:03 <sgk_> and in only half an hour! 19:35:14 <GregNoel> true. 19:35:20 * sgk_ is feeling full of piss and vinegar 19:35:29 <sgk_> on to the backlog! 19:35:36 <GregNoel> Should we assign someone when we re-triage? 19:35:44 <sgk_> for 2158? 19:35:47 <GregNoel> yes 19:36:05 <sgk_> who? 19:36:32 <GregNoel> Anyone: you, me, Gary, Brandon. It's one line of code! 19:36:42 <sgk_> me 19:36:45 <GregNoel> done 19:37:58 <sgk_> well, let's at least kill those last 2006H2 bugs 19:38:24 <GregNoel> yes, just getting set up. My network is slow today 19:38:32 <GregNoel> 1490 19:39:04 (output from scons -j50 is funny btw, currently inserts other command lines between the \r and \n on windows so you get all sorts of weird line termination and interleaved output) 19:39:40 <sgk_> Brandon: like with -j3 you can get ccclll...eeexxxeee ///fffooo 19:39:42 <sgk_> that sort of thing? 19:40:08 all sorts of extended ascii characters and whatnot 19:40:28 depends what code page you have setup 19:40:29 <sgk_> yeah, we need something that slurps up that stuff and controls the output 19:40:45 <sgk_> 1490: boy, do i wish we had an installer guru 19:40:53 <GregNoel> that's the colorizer issue 19:41:02 <GregNoel> 1490, yes 19:41:09 <sgk_> agreed re: colorizer 19:41:26 <GregNoel> As I said in the spreadsheet, I have no clue. 19:41:42 <GregNoel> you two have to work it out 19:42:03 <sgk_> let's say 1.x p3 (my favorite) 19:42:15 <sgk_> since we have no one immediate to research it 19:42:33 <GregNoel> Brandon? If you agree, I'll go along 19:42:38 <sgk_> i can try to recruit someone who knows about installation 19:43:03 <sgk_> i have a couple of people in mind who might be suitable 19:43:16 <GregNoel> And an AIX guru, and a Solaris guru, and ... 19:43:33 <sgk_> agreed 19:44:04 1490 we are using the stock installer 19:44:21 I'd say wontfix with use a different install method? 19:44:38 <sgk_> right, and it's getting clearer that stock distutils installer isn't up what we need 19:45:10 <GregNoel> I like wontfix; it closes an issue 19:45:12 <sgk_> how about 1.x p3 me 19:45:33 <GregNoel> OK, although you've got too much work 19:45:34 <sgk_> eh, i don't like losing input for when someone takes a look at it 19:45:44 <sgk_> yeah, but i'd take this with the intent of passing it off 19:45:48 <sgk_> once i find someone 19:45:51 <GregNoel> works for me 19:45:59 <sgk_> done 19:46:03 <GregNoel> 1.x p3, then 19:46:39 <sgk_> 1500: sounds like it might be a generic path interpretation issue 19:46:44 <sgk_> research, who? 19:46:50 <GregNoel> I think 1500 is a mingw v. native issue 19:47:34 <GregNoel> (Man, I commented on this so long ago, I've almost completely forgotten what it was about.) 19:47:46 <sgk_> hell, you're right 19:48:04 <GregNoel> always {;-} 19:48:01 <sgk_> sounds like Cygwin, though, not MinGW 19:48:27 <sgk_> of course! we have to have at least one constant to rely on in the group... :-) 19:48:50 my guess is that he has both msys and cygwin in his path 19:49:07 <sgk_> normal node-to-string translation is spitting them out as windows path 19:49:11 before -mno-cygwin was added to GCC there was a lot of that 19:49:12 <sgk_> yeah, i think Brandon is right 19:49:16 <GregNoel> Since I don't use them, I don't know the difference between MSYS and Cygwin 19:49:32 cygwin tries to give windows a posix style interface 19:49:36 <sgk_> Cygwin is evil evil evil 19:49:38 msys tries to make native ports 19:49:58 <GregNoel> er, I wasn't asking, I was stating 19:50:19 cygwin wouldn't be so bad if they were allowed to link against the now mostly unsupported posix runtime for the NT kernel 19:50:57 <sgk_> or if it had just used the "liberal in what you accept" philosophy and not gagged on native Windows path names 19:51:11 <sgk_> and if it didn't LIE about being able to support case sensitivity... 19:51:36 <sgk_> sorry, Cygwin has caused SCons more than a few hassles over the years 19:51:52 <sgk_> so my battle scars make me a little over-sensitive 19:52:26 re the previous bug 19:52:29 <sgk_> back to 1500: WONTFIX 19:52:34 the shim is the builtin.file = scons_file? 19:52:38 <sgk> yes 19:53:24 <GregNoel> wontfix closes an issue, so I like the idea 19:53:44 <sgk_> i can go ahead and write up the text and close it 19:53:50 <GregNoel> OK, I appreciate it 19:53:59 either wontfix or invalid with a request for a test case 19:54:24 <GregNoel> 1502? 19:54:33 <sgk_> 1502: i like 1.x p4 19:54:51 <GregNoel> done 19:54:55 <sgk_> and eventually doing it with GetOption() 19:55:03 <GregNoel> (that was almost too easy) 19:55:20 <sgk_> statistically, some of them have to be... 19:55:28 <sgk_> 1504: research, VisualStudio, stevenknight 19:55:35 <GregNoel> done 19:55:51 <sgk_> 1508: research, VisualStudio, stevenknight 19:55:51 <GregNoel> although I think those are 'anytime' 19:56:00 <sgk_> in practice, true 19:56:16 <GregNoel> in database, true 19:56:24 <sgk_> if you want to change all VisualStudio tags to anytime, that'd be fine with me 19:56:29 <GregNoel> 1508, done 19:56:33 <sgk_> or else I'll do it one of these days 19:56:41 <GregNoel> exactly 19:56:50 re 2124: can reproduce with or without the shim installed 19:56:55 <sgk_> ("in database, true" ? not sure i get the reference, but i like the concept) 19:57:16 <sgk_> Brandon: yow, 2124 with the shim is definitely something uninvestigated 19:57:25 <GregNoel> ('anytime' sorts just after 1.0.x right now, so it'll show up on your radar) 19:57:46 <sgk_> okay 19:58:11 <sgk_> that makes 2124 relatively high priority in my book 19:58:46 <GregNoel> Brandon, can you look at it? And report back next week? 19:58:54 yep 19:59:09 <GregNoel> ok, let's just change the assignment, then 19:59:18 <GregNoel> er, owner 19:59:40 <sgk_> cool; many thanks 19:59:57 <GregNoel> 1516, speaking of colorization... 20:00:01 <sgk_> 1516: colorizer! 20:00:02 <sgk_> yes 20:01:09 <GregNoel> If I understand it better now, process spawning === convert to subprocess. 20:01:39 <GregNoel> As for colorization, I'm color-blind, so it's never made any sense to me. 20:01:40 <sgk_> yes 20:01:57 for greg s/color/blink/ 20:02:22 <GregNoel> So, do we have an issue to convert to subprocess? 20:02:34 <sgk_> no, there's a subprocess compatibility module now 20:02:45 <GregNoel> Azverkan, blink-blind? I don't get it. 20:03:08 blinkizer 20:03:16 <sgk_> but hooking it into subprocess isn't really the right place 20:03:16 <GregNoel> Yes, but do we already have an issue to hang it on, or should we open one? 20:03:44 I believe its also the same part of the multiprocessor buffering 20:03:52 related to that is 20:04:03 <GregNoel> Ah, you're confused. This issue is to colorize the output; is there another issue for the subprocess conversion? 20:04:10 some sort of mechanism for attaching to spawn output 20:04:29 <GregNoel> Yes, apparently subprocess allows that. 20:04:53 <GregNoel> It doesn't pump the output to a process, but you can capture the output. 20:05:56 subprocess just makes popen less buggy on windows? afaik it doesn't offer anything above and beyond regular popen? 20:06:32 <sgk_> i think you're right re: underlying capability 20:06:42 once you have the text stream out of popen or subprocess you need some way to install listeners 20:06:51 <sgk_> it's more about providing a more consistent, unified cross-platform interface 20:07:37 <sgk_> 1516: since I've already been in the middle of it, keep it with me 20:07:48 <sgk_> 2.x ? 20:07:54 <GregNoel> ok, both sides? 20:08:12 agree with 2.x 20:08:15 <sgk_> sure 20:08:21 <GregNoel> colorize+subprocess? 20:08:33 <GregNoel> 2.x, what priority? 20:08:41 <sgk_> p3 20:08:53 <GregNoel> done 20:09:10 <GregNoel> Wow, that finishes this spreadsheet... 20:09:12 <sgk_> okay, i have to get going 20:09:18 <sgk_> same time next week? 20:09:26 <GregNoel> I should as well; cul? 20:09:34 sure, later 20:09:37 <GregNoel> er, hang on... 20:10:13 <GregNoel> When shall we all meet again? 20:10:13 <GregNoel> In thunder, lightning, or in rain? 20:10:13 <GregNoel> Where the place? ... same time next week? 20:10:13 <GregNoel> Should we change the default time to this time? 20:10:30 <sgk_> you 20h00 PDT? 20:10:44 <sgk_> you mean 20h00 pdt? 20:10:49 <GregNoel> 19h00, same as you 20:11:34 <sgk_> yes, we've been using this time regularly enough it should become the default 20:11:48 <GregNoel> OK, I'll take care of that, too. 20:11:52 quick question regarding the shim 20:11:57 <GregNoel> sure 20:12:00 it opens with the inherit flag on 20:12:07 and some amount of time later it toggles it off? 20:12:29 <GregNoel> ah, a race... 20:13:13 <sgk_> yes, since as far as i know, there isn't a way to open it with the inherit flag off 20:13:38 <sgk_> if i'm wrong, that'd be great 20:13:42 <GregNoel> it could explain the symptoms, even with the shim enabled. 20:13:40 have to research that more and my wife wants to eat now, so later 20:13:56 <GregNoel> OK, cul 20:14:10 <sgk_> true 20:14:20 <sgk_> later 20:14:23 <sgk_> thanks, guys 20:14:29 <GregNoel> g'night