TRANSCRIPT.md

Status: FINAL Language :English Doc link: /RChain/Members/Marketing-Community Dev/YouTube

1 00:00:00,299 --> 00:00:02,220 Brad: Hey guys, it’s blockchain Brad and today

2 00:00:02,220 --> 00:00:04,170 we have two very special guests in

3 00:00:04,170 --> 00:00:05,490 the house. We have none other than

4 00:00:05,490 --> 00:00:06,390 Lawrence Lerner.

5 00:00:06,390 --> 00:00:09,179 Hey Lawrence, how you going? Lawrence: Excellent. Brad: And

6 00:00:09,179 --> 00:00:12,059 also we all, have Nash as well. So Nash

7 00:00:12,059 --> 00:00:13,259 thank you so much for being on the

8 00:00:13,259 --> 00:00:15,210 channel, we appreciate your time. Just a

9 00:00:15,210 --> 00:00:16,710 bit of background for both of you, these

10 00:00:16,710 --> 00:00:19,050 guys are the real deal, they are CEOs in

11 00:00:19,050 --> 00:00:20,970 their own right. Lawrence is the CEO of

12 00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:23,430 RChain holding company and if you want to

13 00:00:23,430 --> 00:00:24,330 know more about that, there are many

14 00:00:24,330 --> 00:00:25,619 different sources of information. I'm

15 00:00:25,619 --> 00:00:27,090 gonna find it about some excellent and

16 00:00:27,090 --> 00:00:28,650 amazing credentials about Lawrence in a

17 00:00:28,650 --> 00:00:30,960 moment, but also Nash he has a long

18 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,610 history of business experience as well

19 00:00:32,610 --> 00:00:34,440 and he is the CEO of a company called

20 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,200 Pyrofex. So both of you welcome, we are

21 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,629 very honored to have you. Let's talk

22 00:00:39,629 --> 00:00:41,010 about your background briefly Lawrence.

23 00:00:41,010 --> 00:00:42,540 I'm going to introduce you with some key

24 00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:44,340 achievements you've made, then just give

25 00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:46,260 us a bit about who you are and what

26 00:00:46,260 --> 00:00:47,969 you've done, what you’ve achieved. So

27 00:00:47,969 --> 00:00:50,309 Lawrence is amazing, he's done quite a

28 00:00:50,309 --> 00:00:51,649 lot of things, he's had extensive

29 00:00:51,649 --> 00:00:53,579 executive experience and when I read

30 00:00:53,579 --> 00:00:56,190 through it I was amazed. The reason

31 00:00:56,190 --> 00:00:58,199 is because he's managed to do things, for

32 00:00:58,199 --> 00:01:01,219 example, like improve the

33 00:01:01,219 --> 00:01:03,840 economic outcomes for companies like Dun

34 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,700 & Bradstreet, for 35 percent increases,

35 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:07,770 defining Motorola smartphone

36 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:09,540 strategies, it's amazing what he's done.

37 00:01:09,540 --> 00:01:11,970 He's also done impressive things like

38 00:01:11,970 --> 00:01:13,920 work with venture capital firms, he's

39 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,350 been involved in significant stake rises,

40 00:01:16,350 --> 00:01:19,950 in various executive roles

41 00:01:19,950 --> 00:01:22,530 for improving technological advancement

42 00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:24,540 in the industry. So Lawrence, tell us about

43 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:26,880 you. Lawrence: Well that's

44 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,189 an amazing introduction. So I started as a

45 00:01:29,189 --> 00:01:31,350 developer, second generation Internet

46 00:01:31,350 --> 00:01:34,650 developer. Everything I learned,

47 00:01:34,650 --> 00:01:37,470 I learned from coding and some point,

48 00:01:37,470 --> 00:01:39,210 somewhere along the way, somebody said to

49 00:01:39,210 --> 00:01:41,310 me, hey we'd like you to leave the

50 00:01:41,310 --> 00:01:43,579 practice and then leave the business and

51 00:01:43,579 --> 00:01:46,049 so I got to work with a lot of edge

52 00:01:46,049 --> 00:01:47,790 technologies. I've been really fortunate

53 00:01:47,790 --> 00:01:50,220 to do work in the early

54 00:01:50,220 --> 00:01:53,399 Internet days, working with cards like

55 00:01:53,399 --> 00:01:55,530 Discover card and helping them get

56 00:01:55,530 --> 00:01:57,810 launched as you mentioned, help Motorola

57 00:01:57,810 --> 00:01:59,820 with their smartphone strategy and

58 00:01:59,820 --> 00:02:01,259 actually that's when I got involved with

59 00:02:01,259 --> 00:02:03,630 crypto in the late 90s. So I've been

60 00:02:03,630 --> 00:02:07,849 doing it since then, took a long hiatus

61 00:02:07,849 --> 00:02:10,560 while we were figuring out how to get

62 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,740 the technology up and running for

63 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:15,810 that, for blockchain and then Bitcoin and

64 00:02:15,810 --> 00:02:18,810 then worked with a lot of venture

65 00:02:18,810 --> 00:02:20,370 capital. So really figuring out what's

66 00:02:20,370 --> 00:02:23,190 the next edge technology and really,

67 00:02:23,190 --> 00:02:25,800 really pleased to be part of RChain

68 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,040 and the overall efforts and working with

69 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:30,960 people like Nash. Brad: Well, I'm so glad to

70 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,070 talk to you as well, because it was

71 00:02:32,070 --> 00:02:33,900 impressive to see the kind of scale of

72 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:35,910 strategic improvements you've

73 00:02:35,910 --> 00:02:37,260 made. We're talking hundreds of millions

74 00:02:37,260 --> 00:02:39,300 in some instances, so I found that quite

75 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:41,040 amazing. Nash, we move across to you,

76 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,360 you're clearly the

77 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,700 co-founder and CEO of Pyrofex. That's

78 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:46,200 impressive in itself, but you've

79 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,110 also been heavily involved in a lot of

80 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:50,970 other initiatives. Can you tell us about some

81 00:02:50,970 --> 00:02:55,680 of them in your background? Nash: Sure, um first

82 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,900 thanks for having me on today. It's always a

83 00:02:57,900 --> 00:03:00,810 pleasure to get a chance to talk

84 00:03:00,810 --> 00:03:01,290 to the media.

85 00:03:01,290 --> 00:03:03,780 I've been an engineer for

86 00:03:03,780 --> 00:03:06,840 about 25 years, started at University

87 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,260 of North Carolina, working on Sunsite, where

88 00:03:10,260 --> 00:03:12,960 we tested the Java SDK, version 1.0 and

89 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,570 I've been at Google and Oracle and a

90 00:03:15,570 --> 00:03:18,300 number of the other, largest technology

91 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:20,880 firms. Mostly I work on large-scale

92 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,970 distributed systems with a special focus

93 00:03:23,970 --> 00:03:28,230 on performance and security. Mike and I

94 00:03:28,230 --> 00:03:29,940 started Pyrofex corporation about

95 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:31,920 two years ago and we're focused on

96 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,250 blockchain applications, platforms and

97 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:37,260 just improving the performance

98 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,020 and security of those. Primarily, right

99 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:42,240 now we're working on RChain. We think it's got

100 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,010 a lot of potential and we're really excited

101 00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:45,360 about what's going on there.

102 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,800 Brad: I think Lawrence would agree as well,

103 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,810 Nash, on that and what's interesting

104 00:03:48,810 --> 00:03:50,010 about you as well is that you lead a

105 00:03:50,010 --> 00:03:51,930 team of at least 15 at the moment

106 00:03:51,930 --> 00:03:53,640 and that's growing, so we'll talk about

107 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,440 that later. But guys, if we could move

108 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,210 across now to the primary subject and

109 00:03:57,210 --> 00:04:00,030 that is obviously RChain itself. Both

110 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:02,190 of you are well versed in that. What

111 00:04:02,190 --> 00:04:03,960 essentially in a nutshell is RChain,

112 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,400 and obviously that's a tough question

113 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,230 because it's so complex but how would

114 00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:10,740 you explain it Lawrence? Lawrence: So RChain is

115 00:04:10,740 --> 00:04:13,290 a third-generation blockchain platform,

116 00:04:13,290 --> 00:04:16,140 it was really designed from the ground

117 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:18,988 up, based on lessons learned from Greg

118 00:04:18,988 --> 00:04:21,000 Meredith who's the founder and the

119 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,120 architect of Microsoft biz talk, on how

120 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,720 to build highly scalable, up to 40,000

121 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,020 transactions per second systems and

122 00:04:30,020 --> 00:04:33,860 it uses advanced concepts. I'll let Nash

123 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:36,380 dive into some of them, like composable

124 00:04:36,380 --> 00:04:38,420 Namespaces, you can have public and

125 00:04:38,420 --> 00:04:39,680 private blockchains.

126 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,020 We're developing our own, from the ground

127 00:04:42,020 --> 00:04:44,510 up language and we'll get real deep in

128 00:04:44,510 --> 00:04:46,670 that, called Rholang, based on mobile

129 00:04:46,670 --> 00:04:50,780 process calculus and it allows us to do

130 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:53,660 advanced concepts like, correct by

131 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:56,720 construction programming. And those are

132 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,740 some of the things that are going to be

133 00:04:57,740 --> 00:05:00,740 very differentiated and solve some

134 00:05:00,740 --> 00:05:02,510 of the problems, like the energy suck

135 00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:05,120 that some blockchains are creating and

136 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,520 some of the more unusual ones, like

137 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,160 problems with CryptoKitties.

138 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,600 Brad: That's an important one obviously, having

139 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,940 seen the disastrous impacts that had

140 00:05:13,940 --> 00:05:15,530 on and pressure put on the blockchain.

141 00:05:15,530 --> 00:05:17,210 Nash, can you elaborate a bit more on

142 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:18,800 those technical aspects as briefly,

143 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:19,880 because we're gonna address these

144 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,600 specifically as we progress through.

145 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,240 Nash: I think everybody knows that the

146 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,790 two main problems with those smart

147 00:05:28,790 --> 00:05:30,140 contracting blockchains that are out

148 00:05:30,140 --> 00:05:34,700 there, like Ethereum, are performance and

149 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:37,100 security. It's too easy to write

150 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:38,930 smart contracts that don't work the way

151 00:05:38,930 --> 00:05:41,480 you expect, and then once you write a

152 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,400 smart contract it's really popular, they're

153 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,860 too slow, the system gets overloaded, it's

154 00:05:45,860 --> 00:05:47,419 vulnerable to different kinds of attacks

155 00:05:47,419 --> 00:05:50,210 and stuff like that. So, RChain has a

156 00:05:50,210 --> 00:05:51,740 variety of different technologies that

157 00:05:51,740 --> 00:05:53,360 are being developed in order to deal

158 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,110 with those. In particular, we have an

159 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:59,810 approach to performance that's a bit

160 00:05:59,810 --> 00:06:01,580 more sophisticated than simply sharding

161 00:06:01,580 --> 00:06:03,860 the network into different parts. It's

162 00:06:03,860 --> 00:06:07,130 going to allow us to build a

163 00:06:07,130 --> 00:06:09,500 kind of tree of different Namespaces

164 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:11,840 where people will be able to profitably

165 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,230 clear transactions and to run their

166 00:06:15,230 --> 00:06:17,180 smart contracts without interference

167 00:06:17,180 --> 00:06:19,160 from folks that they're not

168 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,250 interacting with and this will allow us

169 00:06:22,250 --> 00:06:24,890 to run those Namespaces in parallel

170 00:06:24,890 --> 00:06:27,620 without needing to cross transact.

171 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:30,050 So, my Wallet here in Provo doesn't

172 00:06:30,050 --> 00:06:31,490 really transact with people down in

173 00:06:31,490 --> 00:06:33,140 Australia. And so, generally

174 00:06:33,140 --> 00:06:35,810 speaking, my Wallet doesn't care

175 00:06:35,810 --> 00:06:37,340 about any of the transactions that

176 00:06:37,340 --> 00:06:39,620 you're doing, where you are,

177 00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:41,419 and so, there doesn't need to be

178 00:06:41,419 --> 00:06:43,870 any synchronization between

179 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:46,430 those two programs on the blockchain. And

180 00:06:46,430 --> 00:06:48,610 that'll really drive up the ability to

181 00:06:48,610 --> 00:06:51,980 transact much more quickly. Then, in

182 00:06:51,980 --> 00:06:54,350 terms of security, we've got several

183 00:06:54,350 --> 00:06:55,880 different technologies we're baking into

184 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,850 Rholang. In particular, as Lawrence

185 00:06:58,850 --> 00:07:00,800 mentioned, the Mobile Process Calculus or

186 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,720 the PI Calculus is the basis for this

187 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,030 programming language. It's a different way

188 00:07:05,030 --> 00:07:07,820 of doing computing from Von Neumann

189 00:07:07,820 --> 00:07:10,370 machines. It basically puts distributed

190 00:07:10,370 --> 00:07:12,139 computing at the center, at the heart of

191 00:07:12,139 --> 00:07:14,300 the programming language and then allows

192 00:07:14,300 --> 00:07:17,000 you to build programs that are

193 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,310 inherently concurrent as opposed

194 00:07:19,310 --> 00:07:21,620 to having concurrency tacked on later.

195 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:23,840 On top of that, we're also

196 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,000 going to be building into the language a

197 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,660 Strong Type system that allows

198 00:07:29,660 --> 00:07:31,669 programmers to use spatial behavioral

199 00:07:31,669 --> 00:07:33,770 types to make sure that their smart

200 00:07:33,770 --> 00:07:35,419 contracts actually behave the way that

201 00:07:35,419 --> 00:07:37,190 they're intended to behave so,

202 00:07:37,190 --> 00:07:38,690 for example, you might want to be able to

203 00:07:38,690 --> 00:07:41,000 guarantee that you don't refund money to

204 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,650 a Wallet that didn't give you money in

205 00:07:42,650 --> 00:07:45,050 the first place. So that's

206 00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:47,600 a fairly simple thing to express in

207 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,190 the spatial behavioral type system

208 00:07:49,190 --> 00:07:50,810 that's gonna be at Rholang next year.

209 00:07:50,810 --> 00:07:52,640 Brad: And Nash, you say that simple but I think

210 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,229 we can't underestimate the value of that

211 00:07:54,229 --> 00:07:55,760 for users because, obviously that's a

212 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,650 huge issue right now. In that way,

213 00:07:57,650 --> 00:07:59,660 if you do make a mistake and you do

214 00:07:59,660 --> 00:08:00,560 happen to send it to the wrong address,

215 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,720 you're provided with a security measure

216 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,130 that's second to none in that

217 00:08:04,130 --> 00:08:05,840 respect and giving people confidence to

218 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,300 trust something, like RChain's facilities.

219 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:11,000 If we move it back now

220 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,039 to one of the key aspects of

221 00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:15,050 your design and that's your virtual

222 00:08:15,050 --> 00:08:17,360 machine. First of all, let's

223 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,000 address the slogan itself. So, RChain

224 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,530 argues that it is the blockchain

225 00:08:21,530 --> 00:08:23,720 solution for industrial scale utility,

226 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,990 industrial scale applications. So let's

227 00:08:26,990 --> 00:08:28,310 talk about how you're gonna do that and

228 00:08:28,310 --> 00:08:29,870 fundamentally you need a great virtual

229 00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:32,150 machine to make that happen. So

230 00:08:32,150 --> 00:08:34,549 what sets the Roh virtual machine apart,

231 00:08:34,549 --> 00:08:39,559 why is it so good? Nash: Well, we're actually

232 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,029 working on two different virtual

233 00:08:41,029 --> 00:08:43,690 machines right now. We've got the Rosette VM

234 00:08:43,690 --> 00:08:47,209 that Greg Meredith wrote with a number of

235 00:08:47,209 --> 00:08:49,880 excellent developers and engineers back

236 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,270 at MCC, in the late 90s. We are upgrading

237 00:08:53,270 --> 00:08:53,920 that VM

238 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,660 to 64-bit and bringing it out. Very

239 00:08:58,660 --> 00:09:00,310 shortly we'll be releasing a version of

240 00:09:00,310 --> 00:09:03,100 that. That virtual machine's

241 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:05,320 already been tested across the world

242 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,079 in large-scale ATM networks for example,

243 00:09:08,079 --> 00:09:10,360 and so we know that it's robust and

244 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,579 reliable for industrial processing

245 00:09:12,579 --> 00:09:14,170 because we've simply seen it before.

246 00:09:14,170 --> 00:09:16,149 It's done the job for many, many

247 00:09:16,149 --> 00:09:18,670 years, it's still in use across the world,

248 00:09:18,670 --> 00:09:20,440 and as a result of that we're very

249 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,480 confident that it's gonna work. We're

250 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:23,800 also building a new virtual machine

251 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,019 that's written in Scala and part of the

252 00:09:26,019 --> 00:09:27,790 reason we want to build a new version of

253 00:09:27,790 --> 00:09:29,290 the same VM is because we want to be

254 00:09:29,290 --> 00:09:30,639 able to prove that the thing works the

255 00:09:30,639 --> 00:09:32,470 way that we say it does, and so we're

256 00:09:32,470 --> 00:09:34,240 using the absolute best tools we can

257 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,089 find in the space today. We're basing the

258 00:09:37,089 --> 00:09:40,240 VM on the JVM, it's written in Scala. It's

259 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,550 gonna be, you know, formally verifiable,

260 00:09:42,550 --> 00:09:44,589 formally verified at some point to

261 00:09:44,589 --> 00:09:47,320 actually implement the virtual

262 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,699 machine that we claim that it does, and

263 00:09:48,699 --> 00:09:50,470 we believe that that'll allow it to

264 00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:53,260 perform and to be secure for a wide

265 00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:55,079 variety of different applications that

266 00:09:55,079 --> 00:09:57,610 are gonna be at scale. Brad: Awesome, and

267 00:09:57,610 --> 00:09:58,930 Laurence if we can move across to you

268 00:09:58,930 --> 00:10:01,240 for a moment, in the industry is a huge

269 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,100 part of the design and you're part of

270 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:04,390 the holdings company which is a very

271 00:10:04,390 --> 00:10:06,519 important capital firm that, hopefully

272 00:10:06,519 --> 00:10:08,890 you'll be definitely garnering

273 00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:10,660 more support through various endeavors,

274 00:10:10,660 --> 00:10:11,920 obviously through channels like this,

275 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,690 that more people have interest at

276 00:10:13,690 --> 00:10:16,149 that level. But industry itself, why

277 00:10:16,149 --> 00:10:19,810 industry focus? Why industry scaling, why?

278 00:10:19,810 --> 00:10:21,970 Lawrence: It's adaptability.

279 00:10:21,970 --> 00:10:24,550 We're looking for, I call them

280 00:10:24,550 --> 00:10:27,760 boring use cases. Places that have lots

281 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,360 and lots of scale. Insurance, supply chain,

282 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,000 I'll go into these, healthcare. Anywhere

283 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,890 where there's membership onboarding,

284 00:10:35,890 --> 00:10:37,839 people want to know that that

285 00:10:37,839 --> 00:10:40,870 information is secure and can scale. And

286 00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:41,920 these things happen

287 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,620 millions of times every day. So the first

288 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:46,000 things that we're investing in, and we'll

289 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,000 announce our first formal investment in

290 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,519 probably about three weeks, our identity

291 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:54,279 systems. Companies that are building

292 00:10:54,279 --> 00:10:56,230 identity solutions, why? Because they're

293 00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:58,480 foundational to the Wallets that Nash

294 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,240 mentioned earlier, if you want to verify

295 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,160 things. And we're using advanced, or

296 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,170 they're using, I should say, advanced,

297 00:11:05,170 --> 00:11:07,040 concepts, like zero knowledge proofs,

298 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,750 where you can share

299 00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:12,529 information with only a certain amount

300 00:11:12,529 --> 00:11:14,959 of correctness and you don't need to

301 00:11:14,959 --> 00:11:17,779 expose any more than that bit of

302 00:11:17,779 --> 00:11:19,940 information. Brad: I see, so essentially you're

303 00:11:19,940 --> 00:11:21,170 talking about trusting the blockchain

304 00:11:21,170 --> 00:11:22,519 as well as having applications

305 00:11:22,519 --> 00:11:24,800 built-in for people to verify their ID

306 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,100 and have it certified through

307 00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:30,920 the partnerships you're making? Lawrence: Verified?

308 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,050 Yes, verified and then shared, so there's

309 00:11:33,050 --> 00:11:35,449 many different companies that are

310 00:11:35,449 --> 00:11:38,240 working on this and we partner with a

311 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,589 number, Trusted Key, Life ID, Evernym,

312 00:11:42,589 --> 00:11:44,899 a lot of that work. We're also creating

313 00:11:44,899 --> 00:11:47,870 working groups for the larger community so

314 00:11:47,870 --> 00:11:49,850 it's not just our investment.

315 00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:53,660 we're doing that in identity, in storage,

316 00:11:53,660 --> 00:11:55,699 in supply chain, those are the first

317 00:11:55,699 --> 00:11:58,009 three that we're really working heavily

318 00:11:58,009 --> 00:12:00,230 on. Brad: And, obviously you say the

319 00:12:00,230 --> 00:12:02,389 first three but those are huge in itself,

320 00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:04,490 so, no doubt, the partners we're talking

321 00:12:04,490 --> 00:12:06,889 about here are all of significant size, much

322 00:12:06,889 --> 00:12:08,540 like your own credentials

323 00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:10,430 and the things that you've done. Let's

324 00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:12,050 move across now to sharding, Nash. I want

325 00:12:12,050 --> 00:12:13,699 to talk to you about that. The

326 00:12:13,699 --> 00:12:15,350 partitioning aspect of RChain's, really

327 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:16,730 quite exceptional, can you tell us a bit

328 00:12:16,730 --> 00:12:20,569 about how it works? Nash: Well, there are

329 00:12:20,569 --> 00:12:21,829 substantial portions of it that are

330 00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:23,779 still being finalized but at the end of

331 00:12:23,779 --> 00:12:27,350 the day, the goal is to allow different

332 00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:30,260 smart contracts to run in parallel,

333 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:32,120 truly concurrently. So they're

334 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,279 running in parallel with no interaction

335 00:12:34,279 --> 00:12:38,420 if they don't need to. And we use

336 00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:40,519 a feature of the PI Calculus called

337 00:12:40,519 --> 00:12:42,980 scope extrusion to determine when a

338 00:12:42,980 --> 00:12:45,620 smart contract needs to be elevated into

339 00:12:45,620 --> 00:12:47,389 a larger Namespace, so that it can

340 00:12:47,389 --> 00:12:49,550 interact with other smart contracts and

341 00:12:49,550 --> 00:12:51,769 then, once it's done performing those

342 00:12:51,769 --> 00:12:53,209 interactions we can perform scope

343 00:12:53,209 --> 00:12:55,010 retraction to bring it back down into a

344 00:12:55,010 --> 00:12:56,990 smaller Namespace, that allows it to run

345 00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:59,329 much more cheaply. And the goal in this

346 00:12:59,329 --> 00:13:01,730 case is basically to ensure that there

347 00:13:01,730 --> 00:13:03,319 are places in the blockchain where lots

348 00:13:03,319 --> 00:13:05,029 of transactions can be happening where

349 00:13:05,029 --> 00:13:06,769 there's lots of interactions, but also

350 00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:08,449 where you could have things that are

351 00:13:08,449 --> 00:13:10,639 much more isolated, and to allow that to

352 00:13:10,639 --> 00:13:12,649 be done, basically by the users

353 00:13:12,649 --> 00:13:14,509 themselves. So we want to create a

354 00:13:14,509 --> 00:13:16,160 system where the users get to control the

355 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,980 structure, and the users get to determine

356 00:13:18,980 --> 00:13:19,459 how

357 00:13:19,459 --> 00:13:21,290 they want to deploy their contracts and

358 00:13:21,290 --> 00:13:22,879 where they would like to pay their fees

359 00:13:22,879 --> 00:13:25,339 for validation or mining and that type

360 00:13:25,339 --> 00:13:31,970 of thing.

361 00:13:31,970 --> 00:13:33,379 Brad: It's great that you are

362 00:13:33,379 --> 00:13:35,420 providing that degree of concurrency and

363 00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:36,740 if we could talk about some of those

364 00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:38,300 functions relations that Nash (mentioned) while

365 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:39,769 we're on that topic of meta programming,

366 00:13:39,769 --> 00:13:41,959 for example, or the reactive data streams

367 00:13:41,959 --> 00:13:43,610 and the pattern matching, those

368 00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:46,129 aspects are really key to this. So can

369 00:13:46,129 --> 00:13:48,019 you just briefly touch on

370 00:13:48,019 --> 00:13:54,800 those? Nash: Yeah, at the end

371 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,980 of the day, there's a

372 00:13:57,980 --> 00:13:59,720 decentralized consensus system in

373 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,759 basically every computing platform.

374 00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:03,230 Most people don't realize it but

375 00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:05,360 there's a consensus system inside your

376 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,089 Intel CPU. There are instructions that

377 00:14:08,089 --> 00:14:10,670 implement memory gates to cause main

378 00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:12,619 RAM to synchronize with the CPU cache

379 00:14:12,619 --> 00:14:15,709 and that's how two cores inside your CPU

380 00:14:15,709 --> 00:14:17,209 actually interact with each other. So

381 00:14:17,209 --> 00:14:19,399 when you want to create high-performance

382 00:14:19,399 --> 00:14:21,519 flows, you have to have

383 00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:25,819 minimum synchronization. You want to be

384 00:14:25,819 --> 00:14:26,899 able to run all the data through a

385 00:14:26,899 --> 00:14:29,059 single core,

386 00:14:29,059 --> 00:14:30,259 without having to interact with the

387 00:14:30,259 --> 00:14:32,179 other core, because otherwise it'll

388 00:14:32,179 --> 00:14:34,220 be constantly interrupted and

389 00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:36,350 spending all its time gating memory and

390 00:14:36,350 --> 00:14:38,209 doing all of this synchronization work,

391 00:14:38,209 --> 00:14:40,249 which is expensive. The blockchain works

392 00:14:40,249 --> 00:14:41,929 exactly the same way. If we want to

393 00:14:41,929 --> 00:14:43,790 create high performance data flows on

394 00:14:43,790 --> 00:14:45,319 the blockchain, between

395 00:14:45,319 --> 00:14:46,999 two different locations in the

396 00:14:46,999 --> 00:14:48,769 world, the trick is going to be, to make

397 00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:50,179 sure that they interact with each other

398 00:14:50,179 --> 00:14:53,240 and a minimum of other people. Today on Ethereum

399 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,399 if you want to publish a

400 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:58,399 transaction, it's

401 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:00,350 in lockstep with every single other

402 00:15:00,350 --> 00:15:02,269 transaction all across the entire globe.

403 00:15:02,269 --> 00:15:04,790 RChain totally breaks that

404 00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:06,649 model. We don't need to order

405 00:15:06,649 --> 00:15:09,860 transactions relative to

406 00:15:09,860 --> 00:15:11,629 each other unless the transactions are

407 00:15:11,629 --> 00:15:14,269 actually related. Brad: I think that's a

408 00:15:14,269 --> 00:15:16,279 massive point because again, to use an

409 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:17,720 analogy, if you're thinking about it like

410 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,819 a line of people, there's no distinction

411 00:15:19,819 --> 00:15:21,679 between them, they can be

412 00:15:21,679 --> 00:15:23,179 positioned anywhere in that line for the

413 00:15:23,179 --> 00:15:24,499 Ethereum. And what you're doing is

414 00:15:24,499 --> 00:15:25,819 breaking apart that line and you're

415 00:15:25,819 --> 00:15:28,240 creating different, in parallel, sync

416 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,160 components that are going to facilitate

417 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,050 computational advancement and also

418 00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:35,420 scalability itself. Lawrence, if we can

419 00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:37,220 talk about something you're

420 00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:39,290 experienced in, and that's enterprise.

421 00:15:39,290 --> 00:15:40,580 We're so fortunate to have

422 00:15:40,580 --> 00:15:42,290 Nash leading the way with all the

423 00:15:42,290 --> 00:15:44,000 technological and technical

424 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,100 aspects of RChain, but you're certainly

425 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,890 privy to none of the deals you're

426 00:15:48,890 --> 00:15:51,050 making. And in the future, how important is

427 00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:53,630 the vision in enterprise for RChain

428 00:15:53,630 --> 00:15:56,209 Holdings? Lawrence: It's huge.

429 00:15:56,209 --> 00:15:59,690 I mean it is part of our sort of

430 00:15:59,690 --> 00:16:02,630 midterm goals in a couple of ways,

431 00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:04,579 because as Nash has pointed out, this is

432 00:16:04,579 --> 00:16:06,350 a very different programming paradigm,

433 00:16:06,350 --> 00:16:10,310 and what it allows you to do, is be more

434 00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:13,430 robust with your transactions, provide

435 00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:16,130 more scalability and change the way that

436 00:16:16,130 --> 00:16:18,230 they're doing (business?)

437 00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:19,700 At the end of the day,

438 00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:22,490 it's very simple, it's a cost play. By

439 00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:24,170 being able to put things on the

440 00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:27,890 blockchain, like membership onboarding. And I'd

441 00:16:27,890 --> 00:16:29,630 love to talk about aspirational things,

442 00:16:29,630 --> 00:16:31,279 don't get me wrong, but these are things

443 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:33,440 that we could do in six months, once

444 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,690 we're fully live,

445 00:16:35,690 --> 00:16:37,550 taking costs out of membership

446 00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:40,339 onboarding, property title transfers, all

447 00:16:40,339 --> 00:16:42,649 the enterprise. I spoke to the insurance

448 00:16:42,649 --> 00:16:45,709 industry here in the US last month.

449 00:16:45,709 --> 00:16:48,200 They're very excited about the

450 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,690 opportunities with blockchain and how

451 00:16:50,690 --> 00:16:52,520 RChain can help them scale and

452 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,470 streamline what they're doing. In the

453 00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:57,079 medical industry, in constructing

454 00:16:57,079 --> 00:17:01,220 documents for the legal industry, in the

455 00:17:01,220 --> 00:17:03,950 music industry, not for streaming but for

456 00:17:03,950 --> 00:17:07,150 things like venues and other aspects

457 00:17:07,150 --> 00:17:10,400 that artists need, because today

458 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,109 artists are making very little off their

459 00:17:12,109 --> 00:17:15,290 music. It's the sale, it's about the

460 00:17:15,290 --> 00:17:17,329 venues and the merch and we can put

461 00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:19,520 those on the blockchain.

462 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,339 And they've learned that they get

463 00:17:22,339 --> 00:17:26,750 disrupted. In 2008-2009, US banking system,

464 00:17:26,750 --> 00:17:28,640 the banking system around the world had

465 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,460 some stumbling blocks.

466 00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:34,640 They lost trust and then they

467 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,440 discovered blockchain and they got

468 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,470 behind it in a big way. Brad: And you said

469 00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:41,059 that also Lawrence, because many people

470 00:17:41,059 --> 00:17:43,220 don't know how early they adopted it but

471 00:17:43,220 --> 00:17:44,450 if you go and do the research they

472 00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:46,040 absorbed it, many banks. And we're

473 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:46,370 talking about some of the

474 00:17:46,370 --> 00:17:48,470 largest in the world. And we won't name

475 00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:50,779 names, but one CEO in

476 00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:52,760 particular has been quite vocal, let's

477 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,950 say, but underneath that, he has certainly

478 00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:57,110 been adopting it.

479 00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:58,580 So it is a really serious thing that

480 00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:01,640 you make, is what you're saying. Lawrence: His picture

481 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,789 is the first slide that I've used in

482 00:18:04,789 --> 00:18:06,620 every deck for the last six months and

483 00:18:06,620 --> 00:18:09,380 if you go to my LinkedIn, you'll see it's there, but

484 00:18:09,380 --> 00:18:11,360 yeah. Brad: I'm sure it's worth

485 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:16,850 diamonds, not gold, let's say. So in that

486 00:18:16,850 --> 00:18:18,049 respect, I wanted to ask you

487 00:18:18,049 --> 00:18:19,279 specifically, what I really like about

488 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:20,840 the way you're addressing this is that

489 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,039 you're not just focused on

490 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:24,049 enterprise, that is a huge component but

491 00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:25,159 with Nash to support, you're also

492 00:18:25,159 --> 00:18:27,140 considering the user, the late user in

493 00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:28,760 the space because there are provisions

494 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,470 for them and that's what makes blockchain

495 00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:32,000 so exciting in this respect, is

496 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,610 that it has this mutually

497 00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:36,409 beneficial environment between these two

498 00:18:36,409 --> 00:18:38,890 parties. Do you think that's fair to say?

499 00:18:38,890 --> 00:18:41,840 Lawrence: Yes, and it happens in many different

500 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,240 ways. And the thing that's key about

501 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,970 RChain, and that I say whenever I look at

502 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:48,529 any blockchain, whatever it is and I

503 00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:50,240 write about it almost every day, is that

504 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,370 there is an earn-able token.

505 00:18:52,370 --> 00:18:54,260 There is something that's transact-able,

506 00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:56,179 that you can put your finger on, and say,

507 00:18:56,179 --> 00:18:59,480 ah-ha, here's why people are going to

508 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,919 come in. So, anyone could be a

509 00:19:00,919 --> 00:19:02,570 miner. There are gonna be lots of

510 00:19:02,570 --> 00:19:05,360 different opportunities for that, to do

511 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,850 the proofing algorithm and I know Nash

512 00:19:07,850 --> 00:19:10,880 is gonna go deep on Casper, but that

513 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,970 is a key point that we bring out,

514 00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:15,950 that you can look at, dare I say,

515 00:19:15,950 --> 00:19:18,289 the legitimacy of the RChain platform.

516 00:19:18,289 --> 00:19:20,720 Brad: I agree, and obviously that's the reason

517 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,799 why we're talking, because I was reading

518 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:23,659 into your work and quite amazed by

519 00:19:23,659 --> 00:19:25,820 two things. Firstly, the complexity, that's

520 00:19:25,820 --> 00:19:27,350 why we have Nash here to explain those

521 00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:30,020 things, but also I suppose, the lack

522 00:19:30,020 --> 00:19:32,210 of attention you've had so far.

523 00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:33,380 You're flying under the radar in a

524 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:35,390 massive way and I wonder why, because of

525 00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:37,549 what you already, clearly are planning on

526 00:19:37,549 --> 00:19:39,549 doing and the tech behind it and the team.

527 00:19:39,549 --> 00:19:42,559 Again, no question in that comment, but it

528 00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:44,210 does surprise me that that is happening.

529 00:19:44,210 --> 00:19:45,860 Let's move across now to the smart

530 00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:47,570 contracts, that is one of the really

531 00:19:47,570 --> 00:19:49,700 impressive things about RChain. In

532 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:50,990 that you are claiming that you are

533 00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:53,029 dynamic, you're responsive, you're provably

534 00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:55,490 correct as smart contract operations. And so

535 00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:58,460 can you talk Nash about

536 00:19:58,460 --> 00:20:00,210 what really sets the RChain smart

537 00:20:00,210 --> 00:20:06,270 contract apart? Nash: Yeah, it's

538 00:20:06,270 --> 00:20:09,750 fascinating really. For the

539 00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:12,660 vast majority of our industry's history

540 00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:14,430 we've worked with a single model of

541 00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:16,350 computing, called the Von Neumann machine.

542 00:20:16,350 --> 00:20:20,060 There are some minor variations

543 00:20:20,060 --> 00:20:22,710 that are out there, Java Stack Machine

544 00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:23,940 and some other things. But at the end of

545 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,910 the day, your most computing platforms are

546 00:20:26,910 --> 00:20:30,690 built on top of Von Neumann machines.

547 00:20:30,690 --> 00:20:32,610 RChain's built on top of the PI Calculus,

548 00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:34,950 it was a model of computation, it

549 00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:37,350 was invented about 25 years ago by a guy

550 00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:39,750 named Milner. It was designed to help him

551 00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:42,330 analyze distributed systems because

552 00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:45,300 there was no real theoretical tools in

553 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,160 the Von Neumann architecture to help you

554 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,310 do that. And for the next two and a

555 00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:52,410 half decades people continued to bang

556 00:20:52,410 --> 00:20:54,150 their head against Von Neumann machines'

557 00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:57,000 lack of facility with distributed

558 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,710 systems.

559 00:20:57,710 --> 00:21:00,420 I've built built systems that

560 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,150 run on tens of thousands of computers for

561 00:21:03,150 --> 00:21:04,950 Google, 50 different data centers at the

562 00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:07,200 same time. I've seen what we do,

563 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,780 the lengths that we go to, to build systems

564 00:21:09,780 --> 00:21:11,820 that are scalable and fast and reliable,

565 00:21:11,820 --> 00:21:14,970 And it's incredible. And a lot of these

566 00:21:14,970 --> 00:21:17,580 tools are just native to the PI

567 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:20,010 calculus. And so, at the end of the day,

568 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:22,050 what we're really excited to do, is to

569 00:21:22,050 --> 00:21:23,700 introduce a programming model to people

570 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,260 through our smart contracts, that's going

571 00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:27,120 to allow them to write applications that

572 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:28,890 are inherently large-scale, inherently

573 00:21:28,890 --> 00:21:31,080 concurrent and paralyzable from the

574 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,660 ground up. And I think,

575 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:34,860 it's gonna be really fascinating and

576 00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:38,160 interesting but also allows for a wide

577 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,470 variety of additional security and

578 00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:42,330 reliability features to be layered into

579 00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:44,630 the toolset. So, we're very excited about that.

580 00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:47,400 Brad: Likewise, and that's music to my ears, it

581 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,690 sounds amazing. Let's talk about

582 00:21:48,690 --> 00:21:50,640 Namespace, because you were referring to

583 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,350 that before, that's really important to

584 00:21:52,350 --> 00:21:54,450 the overall visibility aspects of both

585 00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:56,100 the smart contacts and the blockchain

586 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:59,010 design. What is Namespace? Why is it

587 00:21:59,010 --> 00:22:03,510 important? Nash: So, Namespaces. If you want to

588 00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:04,890 think of something to give you a sense

589 00:22:04,890 --> 00:22:06,000 of how it's going to work, they're gonna

590 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,310 look a lot like URLs. So you

591 00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:09,840 could have the domain and then you could

592 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,490 have sub-paths underneath that domain,

593 00:22:11,490 --> 00:22:13,680 that describe different resources within

594 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:14,910 your system.

595 00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:17,680 Namespaces are gonna be the mechanism by

596 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,280 which the blockchain is sharded into a

597 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,890 hierarchical tree of different domains

598 00:22:23,890 --> 00:22:26,440 of consideration and then transactions

599 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,810 are actually validated within an

600 00:22:28,810 --> 00:22:30,760 individual Namespace rather than across

601 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,100 a global Namespace, the

602 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:36,070 way the Ethereum is. Because they look

603 00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:38,920 like URLs, you get a lot of theoretical

604 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,010 and practical utility that comes along

605 00:22:42,010 --> 00:22:44,020 with all our 40 years of experience with

606 00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:45,880 the UNIX file system and all of

607 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,610 our understanding about how that works.

608 00:22:47,610 --> 00:22:50,620 Many, many of those principles just go

609 00:22:50,620 --> 00:22:52,870 right through, under RChain and

610 00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:54,430 they're gonna allow us to scale

611 00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:58,120 incredibly quickly and to keep the fees

612 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,960 and the economic incentives from

613 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,140 becoming plutocratic.

614 00:23:05,140 --> 00:23:06,640 Brad: Let's move across now because

615 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:07,810 that's really impressive. I don't wanna

616 00:23:07,810 --> 00:23:09,190 spend the whole time just on tech but

617 00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:10,810 I'm sure Nash, you could talk for hours on

618 00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:13,030 that, but if we move across now to

619 00:23:13,030 --> 00:23:14,590 the relevance, that in the real world, in

620 00:23:14,590 --> 00:23:16,240 terms of scalability, everything has to

621 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,160 have the purpose of application. So

622 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,160 Lawrence, in the real world, we're talking

623 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:22,630 of just how important is the

624 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:25,480 scalability of RChain.

625 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,980 We're talking

626 00:23:26,980 --> 00:23:28,660 about the enterprise. What time frames

627 00:23:28,660 --> 00:23:29,950 are we looking at for the application,

628 00:23:29,950 --> 00:23:31,660 for the scalability to be usable

629 00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:37,060 in context. Lawrence:

630 00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:40,300 Later in the year, end of the year, we'll

631 00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:42,370 have the full Mercury release and

632 00:23:42,370 --> 00:23:45,400 then we'll start seeing the applications

633 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,050 come out shortly after that. But we're

634 00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:48,750 already having the conversations on

635 00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:52,450 supply chain. I've spoken to two of

636 00:23:52,450 --> 00:23:55,210 the card brands already, the credit card

637 00:23:55,210 --> 00:23:57,040 companies who are looking at this

638 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,940 technology to get into the micro payment

639 00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:03,400 space. So we tried that back in the 90s,

640 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,930 it failed because we didn't have the

641 00:24:04,930 --> 00:24:07,150 tech or the infrastructure. But they want

642 00:24:07,150 --> 00:24:09,910 to do their own applications that are

643 00:24:09,910 --> 00:24:11,020 going to be able to do it and they want

644 00:24:11,020 --> 00:24:12,940 to be able to do it at extremely high

645 00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:14,860 speeds. I've talked to companies that

646 00:24:14,860 --> 00:24:19,450 want to put out loyalty programs. We've

647 00:24:19,450 --> 00:24:22,390 talked about identity. It's key for them

648 00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:25,030 to be able to do this quickly but also

649 00:24:25,030 --> 00:24:27,970 be able to leverage things like

650 00:24:27,970 --> 00:24:31,620 Namespaces, to keep things private when,

651 00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:33,940 partly because of the speed reasons. But

652 00:24:33,940 --> 00:24:35,500 not everybody needs to see the

653 00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,830 deals you're doing or your supply chain,

654 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:40,510 but because things move along so quickly

655 00:24:40,510 --> 00:24:42,850 in the supply chain and you can analyze

656 00:24:42,850 --> 00:24:44,650 them when there's a problem.

657 00:24:44,650 --> 00:24:47,110 Walmart is an existing and famous case

658 00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:50,140 study for doing pork products in that,

659 00:24:50,140 --> 00:24:52,720 I've talked to three other CIOs who want

660 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,120 to do exactly the same thing but they're

661 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,430 concerned about bumping their heads on

662 00:24:57,430 --> 00:25:00,010 the ceiling of existing blockchains.

663 00:25:00,010 --> 00:25:02,320 Brad: And also for questions about that,

664 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,090 just off the top of my head, is

665 00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:05,800 that when we talk about these

666 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,140 companies like Walmart, we talk about...

667 00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:10,120 Obviously I'm in China quite a lot

668 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:11,470 looking at exploring blockchains there,

669 00:25:11,470 --> 00:25:13,270 many of them are permissioned. Many of

670 00:25:13,270 --> 00:25:14,860 them are really centralized as well

671 00:25:14,860 --> 00:25:16,960 in their structure. You guys

672 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,060 are also doing this in a public space. Is

673 00:25:19,060 --> 00:25:20,380 that fair to say? You're looking at it as

674 00:25:20,380 --> 00:25:23,710 an operational public blockchain. Lawrence: Yeah!

675 00:25:23,710 --> 00:25:24,640 So that's also another thing that's

676 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,050 setting you apart, with this R&D

677 00:25:26,050 --> 00:25:27,970 and rolling it out in this respect, is

678 00:25:27,970 --> 00:25:30,520 that you are essentially Open Source by

679 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:36,070 design. Is that also correct? Lawrence: Yeah. I look at it like this. We

680 00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:37,600 want our children to be more successful

681 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,750 than us. Brad: That's really fascinating.

682 00:25:40,750 --> 00:25:42,880 So let's talk about the impact, I suppose,

683 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,190 of smart contracts in terms of the

684 00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:48,970 DApps, that's important. How will

685 00:25:48,970 --> 00:25:51,010 RChain essentially impact

686 00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:56,470 upon the overall space of DApps? Nash: Yeah,

687 00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:58,240 that's a really good question. So I think

688 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,930 that one of the biggest problems that

689 00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:03,820 we've had with DApps to adapt deployment

690 00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:06,010 so far, is that they can essentially only

691 00:26:06,010 --> 00:26:07,870 do what the blockchain already does

692 00:26:07,870 --> 00:26:09,870 reasonably well. We have some

693 00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:11,890 distributed exchanges where you can

694 00:26:11,890 --> 00:26:14,980 perform transaction clearing in a book,

695 00:26:14,980 --> 00:26:17,530 and maybe the Maker DAO's Dai stuff

696 00:26:17,530 --> 00:26:19,630 is a good example of a DApp that

697 00:26:19,630 --> 00:26:21,090 works pretty well. But these are not

698 00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:23,110 applications that really stretch the

699 00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:25,780 blockchain use case from the basic

700 00:26:25,780 --> 00:26:28,480 ledger system to something radical

701 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,070 and new. And the reason is simply

702 00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:32,200 performance and reliability. Nobody's

703 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,970 going to put their West Texas

704 00:26:33,970 --> 00:26:36,190 Intermediate crude options market on to

705 00:26:36,190 --> 00:26:37,960 Ethereum, the way that it stands today.

706 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,210 It's just not secure enough and it's not

707 00:26:40,210 --> 00:26:41,410 fast enough and

708 00:26:41,410 --> 00:26:44,320 it's not reliable enough. And so we

709 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,090 have to fix those problems before we're

710 00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:47,380 going to be able to build DApps that

711 00:26:47,380 --> 00:26:49,360 really matter. And as soon as we do I think

712 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,100 we're gonna see a rich blossoming of a

713 00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:53,170 variety of different ideas that are both

714 00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:55,390 industrial, that are financial, that are

715 00:26:55,390 --> 00:26:57,720 artistic, that are community oriented.

716 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,160 There's a lot of different variety here

717 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,840 because there's just an incredible

718 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,140 amount of interaction between people in

719 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:07,150 public spaces that the blockchain can

720 00:27:07,150 --> 00:27:09,340 help to mediate and that smart contracts

721 00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:11,890 can actually facilitate. Brad: I agree, and also

722 00:27:11,890 --> 00:27:13,450 if we talk about Namespace, Lawrence, as

723 00:27:13,450 --> 00:27:14,680 well as the importance of the ideal

724 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,840 component. Do you envisage that also

725 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,000 they'll be transitioning from Ethereum,

726 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,500 once you're established and up and

727 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:22,720 running as a mainnet and as a viable entity

728 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,580 on the blockchain for people to access.

729 00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:26,950 It sounds like it

730 00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:28,660 would be common sense to switch over in

731 00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:30,040 many instances for the

732 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,440 reasons we've been talking about. Lawrence: Well, we

733 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,240 know that people will always use

734 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,460 multiple ones and they, people tend to

735 00:27:36,460 --> 00:27:37,930 stick to things that they're familiar

736 00:27:37,930 --> 00:27:40,540 with, they say no to complicated things.

737 00:27:40,540 --> 00:27:42,130 So, what we're doing is focusing on

738 00:27:42,130 --> 00:27:44,230 education. We put out a lot of

739 00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:46,480 information and we're looking for,

740 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,310 obviously Ethereum developers because

741 00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:50,680 they know the blockchain space, they

742 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,530 understand it and so we're looking

743 00:27:53,530 --> 00:27:56,350 to build content, partnerships to build

744 00:27:56,350 --> 00:27:58,510 content and partnerships with

745 00:27:58,510 --> 00:28:01,680 companies that do software development,

746 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,310 like what

747 00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:06,190 Pyrofex is doing. I do want to say one

748 00:28:06,190 --> 00:28:07,930 thing about the previous question about

749 00:28:07,930 --> 00:28:11,230 DApps, it's kind of a really important

750 00:28:11,230 --> 00:28:15,130 point in the industry. Because of the way

751 00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:16,870 we're building them, the energy

752 00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:20,550 consumption for RChain is going to be

753 00:28:20,550 --> 00:28:22,510 significantly less than what you're

754 00:28:22,510 --> 00:28:24,610 seeing today. And from a social

755 00:28:24,610 --> 00:28:27,310 environmental impact standpoint that's a

756 00:28:27,310 --> 00:28:29,380 big deal and I know there's been a lot

757 00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:31,450 of people like yourself who've spoken

758 00:28:31,450 --> 00:28:33,340 about it, so I did want to bring that out.

759 00:28:33,340 --> 00:28:34,840 Brad: I think it's crucially important also,

760 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,550 not only for that reason, but for the

761 00:28:36,550 --> 00:28:38,110 competitive market of blockchain right

762 00:28:38,110 --> 00:28:39,130 now because there are several,

763 00:28:39,130 --> 00:28:40,840 particularly in China, who are also

764 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,600 competing at that level. And again, we

765 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,150 can't sort of undervalue that

766 00:28:46,150 --> 00:28:48,070 position that you're taking because

767 00:28:48,070 --> 00:28:50,260 blockchain is moving at such a rapid rate

768 00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:52,600 that you look for a moment, you

769 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,130 look back a month ago and you suddenly

770 00:28:54,130 --> 00:28:55,330 see how far

771 00:28:55,330 --> 00:28:57,070 things have changed, literally,

772 00:28:57,070 --> 00:28:59,350 just in this conversation of scalability.

773 00:28:59,350 --> 00:29:02,200 So it's quite fascinating

774 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,900 that you are very much on

775 00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:06,580 the ball with that. It's not

776 00:29:06,580 --> 00:29:08,530 just fascinating, it's important. If we can

777 00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:10,450 move across now to the DAG itself,

778 00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:12,550 obviously that's a huge component

779 00:29:12,550 --> 00:29:15,190 of many really robust blockchains, but is

780 00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:18,100 the RChain just a DAG? Like Hashgraph

781 00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:20,500 for example, or is it similar?

782 00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:24,520 How does it work?

783 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,700 Nash: RChain is not simply a DAG. Obviously any

784 00:29:29,700 --> 00:29:33,430 graph of transactions is gonna have

785 00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:35,680 a DAG component, in the sense

786 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,480 that that's a

787 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,340 very common data structure, but

788 00:29:39,340 --> 00:29:42,400 RChain is not just limited

789 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,210 to the DAG operations that Hashgraph

790 00:29:46,210 --> 00:29:48,940 is. It's a true blockchain and so

791 00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:51,250 when you validate inside of a particular

792 00:29:51,250 --> 00:29:53,710 Namespace, you're gonna be synchronizing

793 00:29:53,710 --> 00:29:54,880 with other people who are running inside

794 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,040 that Namespace but you're gonna be doing

795 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,560 it independently of other Namespaces

796 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:00,910 that you're not currently interacting

797 00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:04,120 with. And that allows Casper to run

798 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,880 much more rapidly and to validate

799 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,980 transactions at a much higher speed than

800 00:30:08,980 --> 00:30:11,110 you would get if you have to

801 00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:13,420 continuously be syncing up along the way.

802 00:30:13,420 --> 00:30:15,640 Brad: Right, and let's talk about data

803 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,380 separation as well, because that's also

804 00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:18,610 something that's outlined on your

805 00:30:18,610 --> 00:30:21,280 website. How important is that

806 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:27,910 aspect of the design? Nash: I think that at the

807 00:30:27,910 --> 00:30:31,180 end of the day, the reality is that

808 00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:32,950 blockchains are going to be responsible

809 00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:34,720 for a lot of data. And we're already

810 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,580 starting to see what happens when you

811 00:30:36,580 --> 00:30:38,710 put too much data on a centralized

812 00:30:38,710 --> 00:30:40,960 blockchain like Ethereum, that the

813 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,490 machines become, the nodes themselves

814 00:30:42,490 --> 00:30:45,100 become incredibly expensive to

815 00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,260 purchase from just a storage perspective,

816 00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:49,390 At this point, what would it

817 00:30:49,390 --> 00:30:51,130 cost somebody to build a node that could

818 00:30:51,130 --> 00:30:53,560 even catch up. So, you have to

819 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,600 BitTorrent down the latest snapshot

820 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,640 and go through all these steps in order

821 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,110 to be able to sync your Ethereum node

822 00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:00,670 and just get on the network and start

823 00:31:00,670 --> 00:31:03,280 validating. And the reality is that we're

824 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,570 gonna have to have a solution for that.

825 00:31:04,570 --> 00:31:07,060 So, data storage is a fundamental part of

826 00:31:07,060 --> 00:31:08,950 RChain, you've actually got a very

827 00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:10,419 interesting data storage layer that

828 00:31:10,419 --> 00:31:11,169 we're going to be releasing

829 00:31:11,169 --> 00:31:13,840 independently later this year. It's based

830 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,700 on the Lightning database which is being

831 00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:18,850 used across a lot of applications. It's

832 00:31:18,850 --> 00:31:21,519 gonna include a predicate query language

833 00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:23,470 that's completely unique I think, at this

834 00:31:23,470 --> 00:31:25,240 point in the database space. And we're

835 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,610 gonna use that layer in order to provide

836 00:31:27,610 --> 00:31:30,700 high speed, high throughput storage and

837 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:33,399 I/O for every single node

838 00:31:33,399 --> 00:31:35,559 that ships, that's on the RChain network.

839 00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,179 And then of course those will be

840 00:31:37,179 --> 00:31:38,980 sharded by Namespace, so the data

841 00:31:38,980 --> 00:31:41,169 that gets stored in your smart contract

842 00:31:41,169 --> 00:31:42,669 is gonna be stored in the Namespace

843 00:31:42,669 --> 00:31:44,769 where it's most affordable to provide

844 00:31:44,769 --> 00:31:48,070 storage. And so there will be Namespaces

845 00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:49,480 where people build systems that are

846 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,639 extremely good at, like long term storage

847 00:31:51,639 --> 00:31:53,620 and they don't charge very much for

848 00:31:53,620 --> 00:31:56,049 archival data storage and you can run a

849 00:31:56,049 --> 00:31:57,940 smart contract there with giant datasets

850 00:31:57,940 --> 00:32:00,159 that's at excellent and

851 00:32:00,159 --> 00:32:01,720 reliable backup because that's what they

852 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,880 designed the Namespace to do. Then right

853 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,899 next door there will be another

854 00:32:04,899 --> 00:32:06,909 Namespace where most of the guys have

855 00:32:06,909 --> 00:32:09,159 figured out, hey we're gonna put SSDs in

856 00:32:09,159 --> 00:32:11,230 all our nodes, we're gonna make the

857 00:32:11,230 --> 00:32:12,760 storage expensive but we're gonna make it

858 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,679 really fast. So if you want to run a high

859 00:32:14,679 --> 00:32:17,350 throughput job on a small data set,

860 00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:18,669 it's gonna be very affordable and

861 00:32:18,669 --> 00:32:20,440 efficient to do it right over here and

862 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,460 this is where you want to make that

863 00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:23,620 deployment, and so essentially... Brad: Sorry,

864 00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:25,120 and that's exactly where Lawrence fits in,

865 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,260 with all of his experiences

866 00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:27,639 because you'll be selling that

867 00:32:27,639 --> 00:32:30,010 fact to many companies around the world,

868 00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:31,720 that the efficiency is there and the

869 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,470 economy is there. Lawrence: And we've already had

870 00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:38,289 conversations with some of the projects

871 00:32:38,289 --> 00:32:39,940 that are building out blockchain

872 00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:42,100 oriented storage. They are hungry for

873 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:44,590 this information and they're asking us

874 00:32:44,590 --> 00:32:46,600 to provide. Well here's what I'm hearing

875 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,850 about supply, all of that rich supply

876 00:32:48,850 --> 00:32:51,039 chain data, especially in food safety, that

877 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:52,779 seems to me the number one use case

878 00:32:52,779 --> 00:32:55,389 that people are asking and they want to

879 00:32:55,389 --> 00:32:56,889 be able to put that information there.

880 00:32:56,889 --> 00:33:00,250 Healthcare records and parts of the

881 00:33:00,250 --> 00:33:01,779 healthcare, I think transformation of

882 00:33:01,779 --> 00:33:04,240 that will take some time but people want

883 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,250 that information on the blockchain.

884 00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:08,919 There's great use cases, France has an

885 00:33:08,919 --> 00:33:11,649 existing model that uses older

886 00:33:11,649 --> 00:33:14,200 technology on chip cards but it's very

887 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,230 applicable to this, and that's why

888 00:33:17,230 --> 00:33:19,179 storage is our second working group.

889 00:33:19,179 --> 00:33:21,190 So, we want to create the

890 00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:22,630 industry conversation.

891 00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:25,030 We certainly want to help lead it, but we

892 00:33:25,030 --> 00:33:28,150 were inviting others to actually run the

893 00:33:28,150 --> 00:33:30,220 working group channels. Brad: Yeah, that sounds really

894 00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:31,809 interesting, if we can move across now,

895 00:33:31,809 --> 00:33:33,760 Nash, to Casper itself because Laurence

896 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,650 was mentioning that previously with

897 00:33:35,650 --> 00:33:37,750 hoping it could lead to that. No doubt

898 00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:39,250 you're planning on implementing that at

899 00:33:39,250 --> 00:33:41,679 some stage in its most robust form, so

900 00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:43,960 what's happening with Casper, as part

901 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,809 of the rollout? Nash: Yeah, it's very exciting

902 00:33:46,809 --> 00:33:49,720 right now. We recently acquired a

903 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,510 developer in Toronto, who's leading

904 00:33:52,510 --> 00:33:54,909 Pyrofex's efforts to take Vlad and

905 00:33:54,909 --> 00:33:56,950 Greg's work from the Casper working

906 00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:58,210 group, to actually build out the

907 00:33:58,210 --> 00:34:01,630 implementation. He's doing a great job, he

908 00:34:01,630 --> 00:34:04,630 just dropped, most recently, a fairly

909 00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:06,130 interesting article on medium, maybe you

910 00:34:06,130 --> 00:34:07,450 could put it in the show notes.

911 00:34:07,450 --> 00:34:10,239 Yeah, Michael Birch is an

912 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,639 incredible guy, he's doing a great work.

913 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:17,590 Vlad has produced a simulator that we

914 00:34:17,590 --> 00:34:20,320 can use at the moment, to simulate the

915 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,270 operation of Casper, and so we're going

916 00:34:22,270 --> 00:34:25,149 through that implementation and figuring

917 00:34:25,149 --> 00:34:27,310 out exactly what details we want to

918 00:34:27,310 --> 00:34:29,020 twiddle here and there.

919 00:34:29,020 --> 00:34:31,480 Casper, it turns out is a family of

920 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:32,889 different algorithms that can be

921 00:34:32,889 --> 00:34:34,570 implemented in different ways, and you

922 00:34:34,570 --> 00:34:36,460 get to choose different parameter sets

923 00:34:36,460 --> 00:34:38,290 depending upon exactly how you want your

924 00:34:38,290 --> 00:34:41,080 consensus system to operate. And so, as we

925 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,480 integrate the work on Namespaces with

926 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,060 Vlad's work on Casper, we're very

927 00:34:46,060 --> 00:34:48,820 close to beginning a full-scale rollout.

928 00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:50,918 We should have it integrated with the

929 00:34:50,918 --> 00:34:54,310 node later this summer and ready for

930 00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:56,560 testing when we fire up the testnet in

931 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,020 the fall. Brad: Right, and obviously Vlad is a

932 00:34:59,020 --> 00:35:02,080 famous member of

933 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,150 the blockchain community. Let's just get

934 00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:05,470 real with this, I mean his credentials

935 00:35:05,470 --> 00:35:07,060 are quite outstanding in their own right.

936 00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:08,980 How important and fundamental is it to

937 00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:12,869 have Vlad on your board of directors? Lawrence: I

938 00:35:12,869 --> 00:35:16,480 mean, Vlad is doing two things with us,

939 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,140 one, Casper and he's in there with

940 00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:22,840 the developers. We had a week-long

941 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,080 retreat that was in Pyrofex's home

942 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,810 town or home state, and we spent a week

943 00:35:28,810 --> 00:35:31,480 working on that. I should say

944 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,260 they, I haven't

945 00:35:32,260 --> 00:35:33,900 done that kind of computing in a while,

946 00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,820 and Vlad is also working with us

947 00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:38,920 on governance. How do you govern a

948 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,590 blockchain, it's hugely complicated and

949 00:35:41,590 --> 00:35:43,240 we're working out those issues.

950 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,630 In mid-February, a large number of the

951 00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:49,150 members of the RChain coop and other

952 00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:51,750 interested parties are coming to Seattle

953 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:55,060 to work on that. And so, he's really

954 00:35:55,060 --> 00:35:58,960 giving us some real leadership of the

955 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,900 the dynamics of running a blockchain for

956 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:03,670 now and the next three years.

957 00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:05,710 Brad: That's exciting, I mean that was one of

958 00:36:05,710 --> 00:36:07,690 the things, I have to say looking,

959 00:36:07,690 --> 00:36:09,850 researching, Vlad led me to RChain, so

960 00:36:09,850 --> 00:36:11,440 I think it's a huge, hugely

961 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,660 important component. If we can talk about

962 00:36:13,660 --> 00:36:15,250 comparisons guys, I know we've brief

963 00:36:15,250 --> 00:36:16,510 touched on it, but let's talk about in

964 00:36:16,510 --> 00:36:17,950 more general sense of blockchains, not

965 00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:20,920 just Ethereum. What are the key,

966 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,930 real, the driving components or the

967 00:36:22,930 --> 00:36:24,369 driving features that really, genuinely

968 00:36:24,369 --> 00:36:26,530 set you apart from all the main chain

969 00:36:26,530 --> 00:36:27,580 blockchains? I'm not talking about all

970 00:36:27,580 --> 00:36:29,109 these projects that come forth as Dapps,

971 00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:31,210 but there are some serious blockchains

972 00:36:31,210 --> 00:36:32,859 we're not talking about as well.

973 00:36:32,859 --> 00:36:34,960 I represent one who is very well-known

974 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,690 in China. But let's get real, for the

975 00:36:37,690 --> 00:36:40,330 future of RChain, what really does set

976 00:36:40,330 --> 00:36:45,880 you apart? Fundamentally, is it the smart

977 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,670 contracts' design? Nash: I think

978 00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:51,160 that at the end of the

979 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,020 day, the thing that's most unique about

980 00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:55,540 RChain is that we've been able to

981 00:36:55,540 --> 00:36:57,910 gather a development team, it's about 20

982 00:36:57,910 --> 00:37:00,400 people strong. It's got, I think we're up

983 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,700 to 7 PhDs in mathematics. We've got four

984 00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:07,810 ex-Googlers. The number of guys on

985 00:37:07,810 --> 00:37:09,100 our team with more than 20 years of

986 00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,950 industry experience is outstanding.

987 00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:13,750 When I look at a

988 00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:15,340 project or when I look at a company or

989 00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:18,250 when I look at a technology, the first

990 00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:20,830 question that I always ask as an

991 00:37:20,830 --> 00:37:22,720 investor or as an interested party is,

992 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,240 what's the team. Because if you

993 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:27,190 talk to VCs in Silicon Valley they want

994 00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:28,750 to invest in teams. They know

995 00:37:28,750 --> 00:37:31,900 that regardless of what the technology

996 00:37:31,900 --> 00:37:33,520 idea is today, things are going to change,

997 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,990 they're gonna have to pivot and make

998 00:37:34,990 --> 00:37:37,150 adjustments in order to ensure they can

999 00:37:37,150 --> 00:37:38,500 deliver something to the market that's

1000 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:40,000 going to work. And I think that

1001 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,640 RChain's team is just incredible. We

1002 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,260 recently, I think yesterday we hit a

1003 00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:45,870 thousand people in our Telegram channel.

1004 00:37:45,870 --> 00:37:47,730 We have a community that's

1005 00:37:47,730 --> 00:37:49,920 incredibly committed and incredibly

1006 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,350 dedicated to working on the technology,

1007 00:37:52,350 --> 00:37:53,940 providing all the support and

1008 00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:56,010 infrastructure and the core Dev team is

1009 00:37:56,010 --> 00:37:58,650 just unbelievably strong. From Vlad and

1010 00:37:58,650 --> 00:38:01,980 Greg Meredith, to Mike Stay, to Kyle Butt from

1011 00:38:01,980 --> 00:38:03,810 Google's compiler team we've just got a

1012 00:38:03,810 --> 00:38:06,480 ton of guys with just incredible resumes.

1013 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,430 Brad: And also Nash, if people want to

1014 00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:09,690 know more about them you can certainly

1015 00:38:09,690 --> 00:38:11,070 go to your website there's several links,

1016 00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:13,080 I've had a look at all of them. I think,

1017 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,750 with respect to also the overall

1018 00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:17,760 performance of RChain in the market

1019 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,470 it's also been substantial

1020 00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:21,540 in recent days. So that's exciting also

1021 00:38:21,540 --> 00:38:23,040 that there's uptake and there's interest

1022 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,470 in the community space of blockchain

1023 00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:28,050 and cryptocurrency. If we can now move

1024 00:38:28,050 --> 00:38:29,370 across a bit more and talk on the

1025 00:38:29,370 --> 00:38:31,950 partners, as you said Nash, I totally agree

1026 00:38:31,950 --> 00:38:32,880 when you look at a white paper you

1027 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,310 scroll very quickly to partners. You want

1028 00:38:35,310 --> 00:38:37,530 to see that it's backed by

1029 00:38:37,530 --> 00:38:39,960 serious support. Lawrence, you can answer

1030 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,060 this as well, I'm sure. Key partners right

1031 00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:43,920 now are RChain Holding, that represents

1032 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,020 you, also Nash with you at Pyrofex.

1033 00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:48,030 But let's expand and extrapolate this

1034 00:38:48,030 --> 00:38:50,910 further. Just how extensive are the

1035 00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:55,170 partnerships, we don't know. Lawrence: I always like

1036 00:38:55,170 --> 00:38:57,270 to talk about things that are

1037 00:38:57,270 --> 00:39:01,320 done and complete like, we

1038 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,510 deliver code. We're having very broad

1039 00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:08,700 conversations with universities because

1040 00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:12,150 education is important to us. Exchanges,

1041 00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:13,980 not because we want the token there,

1042 00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:15,750 we're happy to have it, we appreciate it.

1043 00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:18,630 But how do we help them scale? How do

1044 00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:21,600 they build the next generation? Storage.

1045 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,470 Storage, storage, storage, identity

1046 00:39:25,470 --> 00:39:27,150 solutions, we're talking to all of the

1047 00:39:27,150 --> 00:39:29,820 major identity vendors and we'll be

1048 00:39:29,820 --> 00:39:34,500 taking partnerships there. Brad: Bottom line, is

1049 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:35,520 massive. I can see you're thinking

1050 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,310 through a long list. I wish I

1051 00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:39,600 was inside your brain right now and

1052 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:40,920 knowing those names, but we'll find them

1053 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,150 I'm sure later on when you're willing to

1054 00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:44,190 tell us. Let's talk about the nine

1055 00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:46,310 board members themselves, specifically,

1056 00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:49,230 how important is it having a

1057 00:39:49,230 --> 00:39:54,420 diversified board like this? Lawrence: You get

1058 00:39:54,420 --> 00:39:56,430 a range of opinions and a range

1059 00:39:56,430 --> 00:39:59,579 of experiences, that aren't just the

1060 00:39:59,579 --> 00:40:02,130 technical which we absolutely need. But

1061 00:40:02,130 --> 00:40:03,869 we're also a multinational

1062 00:40:03,869 --> 00:40:06,299 board. Which you don't see very often.

1063 00:40:06,299 --> 00:40:08,640 I've been on public and private boards.

1064 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,039 What we're getting is experience from

1065 00:40:11,039 --> 00:40:13,890 people in Europe who understand what

1066 00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:15,390 does it mean to build things there, and

1067 00:40:15,390 --> 00:40:17,969 from that developer perspective, from the

1068 00:40:17,969 --> 00:40:20,339 enterprise perspective, from a cultural

1069 00:40:20,339 --> 00:40:23,969 perspective, those things add to the

1070 00:40:23,969 --> 00:40:28,619 richness of governance of the coop and

1071 00:40:28,619 --> 00:40:30,809 the way that we're building. And Nash,

1072 00:40:30,809 --> 00:40:32,369 you've probably got your own perspective on

1073 00:40:32,369 --> 00:40:34,890 that as well.

1074 00:40:34,890 --> 00:40:37,079 Brad: What are

1075 00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:38,369 you thinking Nash in terms of that as

1076 00:40:38,369 --> 00:40:39,809 well? Particularly from the technical

1077 00:40:39,809 --> 00:40:42,029 standpoint, because as, a rich,

1078 00:40:42,029 --> 00:40:43,440 the grave experience just in the

1079 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,339 technical side. Nash: Yeah, both

1080 00:40:47,339 --> 00:40:48,749 on the governance side and on the

1081 00:40:48,749 --> 00:40:50,839 technical side I think it's really

1082 00:40:50,839 --> 00:40:53,119 impressive the way that the blockchain

1083 00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:55,349 industry in general has been able to

1084 00:40:55,349 --> 00:40:57,299 pull people in from all across the world.

1085 00:40:57,299 --> 00:41:00,329 We've got our

1086 00:41:00,329 --> 00:41:02,309 16th developer on the RChain project

1087 00:41:02,309 --> 00:41:06,479 just today. And we have about a third

1088 00:41:06,479 --> 00:41:08,940 outside the United States.

1089 00:41:08,940 --> 00:41:11,099 So we've got guys all the way from

1090 00:41:11,099 --> 00:41:13,769 Russia, to Germany, to Poland,

1091 00:41:13,769 --> 00:41:17,999 just all across the world. And it's

1092 00:41:17,999 --> 00:41:19,799 really impressive to be able to pull in

1093 00:41:19,799 --> 00:41:22,289 perspectives from all over. You can

1094 00:41:22,289 --> 00:41:25,499 get guys reviewing each other's code in

1095 00:41:25,499 --> 00:41:26,579 the middle of the night so that

1096 00:41:26,579 --> 00:41:28,499 when the developer wakes back up

1097 00:41:28,499 --> 00:41:29,789 somebody's already checked out what he's

1098 00:41:29,789 --> 00:41:31,410 done the previous day. You could go right

1099 00:41:31,410 --> 00:41:33,269 back to work and it's really

1100 00:41:33,269 --> 00:41:35,430 incredible how fast things move

1101 00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:37,799 and how many different perspectives we

1102 00:41:37,799 --> 00:41:41,749 have, that help us maintain a

1103 00:41:41,749 --> 00:41:44,279 holistic vision. Brad: Awesome, and just in

1104 00:41:44,279 --> 00:41:45,869 terms of community support, obviously

1105 00:41:45,869 --> 00:41:48,479 there's a huge aspect of market

1106 00:41:48,479 --> 00:41:50,699 sentiment, the whole nature of

1107 00:41:50,699 --> 00:41:52,289 blockchain is hinging on

1108 00:41:52,289 --> 00:41:54,719 community itself, that I

1109 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,459 suppose is socially imperative. So how are

1110 00:41:56,459 --> 00:41:58,289 you catering for the small

1111 00:41:58,289 --> 00:42:00,869 guy, to people like me, who want

1112 00:42:00,869 --> 00:42:02,130 to know more about RChain. Who want to access

1113 00:42:02,130 --> 00:42:04,559 perhaps a stake in this

1114 00:42:04,559 --> 00:42:07,019 incredible technology. How are you

1115 00:42:07,019 --> 00:42:08,670 supporting these kind of people with

1116 00:42:08,670 --> 00:42:10,589 reward systems or with being

1117 00:42:10,589 --> 00:42:11,880 able to even access it through social

1118 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,819 media streams?

1119 00:42:13,819 --> 00:42:17,609 Nash: Yeah, that's a really good question.

1120 00:42:17,609 --> 00:42:19,589 RChain, the development team and the

1121 00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:21,839 community in general have a really rich

1122 00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:24,119 bounty system that we've built, that

1123 00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:26,819 allows individual open source developers

1124 00:42:26,819 --> 00:42:28,979 to make contributions whether it's on

1125 00:42:28,979 --> 00:42:31,289 the marketing side, whether it's on the

1126 00:42:31,289 --> 00:42:33,119 web development side, whether it's

1127 00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:34,529 writing technical documentation,

1128 00:42:34,529 --> 00:42:37,380 contributing code. One of our most active

1129 00:42:37,380 --> 00:42:39,269 developers over the last few weeks has

1130 00:42:39,269 --> 00:42:40,920 turned out to be a bounty developer,

1131 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,589 he’s come into the project, he's earning

1132 00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:46,799 RHOCs as a member of the community, he's

1133 00:42:46,799 --> 00:42:49,190 contributing to improvement of the software. Brad: And

1134 00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:51,239 that's why we love blockchain, because

1135 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,529 it opens up

1136 00:42:52,529 --> 00:42:54,329 possibilities for people. If we move

1137 00:42:54,329 --> 00:42:56,400 across now, just to the late consumer in

1138 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,319 that, someone who just wants to know how

1139 00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:00,269 to take part in them. Let's talk about

1140 00:43:00,269 --> 00:43:02,339 roadmaps, let's talk about times when

1141 00:43:02,339 --> 00:43:04,619 people can actually take part

1142 00:43:04,619 --> 00:43:07,410 actively in RChain. When is all

1143 00:43:07,410 --> 00:43:11,190 that gonna unfold? Lawrence: There's a number of

1144 00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:13,229 different streams. Come to

1145 00:43:13,229 --> 00:43:14,880 rchain.coop (website),

1146 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,099 join some of the hangouts, they're

1147 00:43:17,099 --> 00:43:20,700 mostly public for community work. We have

1148 00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:22,680 a thriving discord channel, we'll give

1149 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,259 you all the links. We've got over 700

1150 00:43:25,259 --> 00:43:28,349 developers on our QQ channel in China,

1151 00:43:28,349 --> 00:43:30,839 we're doing active meetups around the

1152 00:43:30,839 --> 00:43:33,089 world. I'm gonna be in San Francisco next

1153 00:43:33,089 --> 00:43:35,910 week, we've got 50 people signed up for

1154 00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:39,150 our first meetup there, we're at the

1155 00:43:39,150 --> 00:43:41,460 runway. And this is in the Twitter

1156 00:43:41,460 --> 00:43:44,519 building, so that we can continue to push

1157 00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:47,009 those out and because it's such an open

1158 00:43:47,009 --> 00:43:48,839 community, almost every one of these

1159 00:43:48,839 --> 00:43:51,329 hangouts is broadcast on YouTube. Brad: Right,

1160 00:43:51,329 --> 00:43:52,890 and you're already live on exchanges,

1161 00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:56,999 that's correct, isn't it? Lawrence: It's correct.

1162 00:43:56,999 --> 00:43:58,109 Brad: So sorry, can you say that again Lawrence?

1163 00:43:58,109 --> 00:43:59,910 Just so we're really crystal clear.

1164 00:43:59,910 --> 00:44:02,789 Lawrence: We're in KuCoin and EtherDelta.

1165 00:44:02,789 --> 00:44:04,680 Brad: So you're on very few exchanges which

1166 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,319 translates to, a huge future in

1167 00:44:07,319 --> 00:44:10,890 terms of exchange access. For those

1168 00:44:10,890 --> 00:44:12,900 people who may not know

1169 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:15,299 much about EtherDelta, obviously

1170 00:44:15,299 --> 00:44:16,640 KuCoin is quite a user friendly platform.

1171 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,960 Let's talk about the prospects of others,

1172 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,819 have you got any clear direction in next

1173 00:44:20,819 --> 00:44:23,969 few exchanges coming? Lawrence: We're

1174 00:44:23,969 --> 00:44:26,360 really focused on the platform and while

1175 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,890 Holdings is a commercial

1176 00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:31,310 venture, we're not out there to get lots

1177 00:44:31,310 --> 00:44:33,260 and lots of RHOCs on circulation on

1178 00:44:33,260 --> 00:44:35,930 exchanges. We're really looking to get in

1179 00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:37,420 the hands of developers and

1180 00:44:37,420 --> 00:44:40,490 entrepreneurs and enterprises and others

1181 00:44:40,490 --> 00:44:42,680 who want to use it. That's our primary

1182 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,160 focus, that's where our energy is. So when

1183 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,870 we pursue exchanges, it's really only for

1184 00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:53,330 helping them scale up their technology

1185 00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:56,420 and improving quality of service. Brad: Right,

1186 00:44:56,420 --> 00:44:58,040 so it's not about also trying to

1187 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,560 increase or expedite the process of,

1188 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,270 we've seen this in the past,

1189 00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:03,680 to be frank, is that some of them will

1190 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:04,970 just go straight through to several

1191 00:45:04,970 --> 00:45:06,860 exchanges very quickly, to really

1192 00:45:06,860 --> 00:45:08,390 hike the price, FOMO the

1193 00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:09,800 market. What I'm hearing from you is

1194 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,510 about utility. I'm hearing that you are

1195 00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:13,400 very much planned on trying to make this

1196 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,620 a real-world project for the future. So,

1197 00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:18,350 let's talk about that specifically. What

1198 00:45:18,350 --> 00:45:20,420 are some of the real-world contexts and

1199 00:45:20,420 --> 00:45:23,170 applications for this as a viable,

1200 00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:25,430 practical, pragmatic business of the

1201 00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:28,400 future? Nash: Pyrofex is going to be

1202 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,170 launching a new product line this year

1203 00:45:30,170 --> 00:45:32,350 to go along with the RChain platform,

1204 00:45:32,350 --> 00:45:34,520 that's going to be an integrated

1205 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,320 development environment for blockchain

1206 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,870 applications. We're gonna have a

1207 00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:41,180 graphical IDE that makes it easy to

1208 00:45:41,180 --> 00:45:43,580 build smart contracts and to deploy them

1209 00:45:43,580 --> 00:45:45,710 seamlessly onto a variety of different

1210 00:45:45,710 --> 00:45:48,020 smart contracting platforms. We want to

1211 00:45:48,020 --> 00:45:49,280 have an App store that helps people

1212 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,680 monetize the smart contracting code that

1213 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,630 they've already written for various

1214 00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:55,820 different blockchains and we want to

1215 00:45:55,820 --> 00:45:57,230 make it easy for people to migrate

1216 00:45:57,230 --> 00:45:59,300 between different blockchains, as their

1217 00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:01,280 application scales. We're not going to

1218 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,440 get tens of thousands of DApps and tens

1219 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,530 of thousands of tokens out there, until

1220 00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:08,030 we have the tools that are

1221 00:46:08,030 --> 00:46:09,580 required in order for people to

1222 00:46:09,580 --> 00:46:11,900 experiment and quickly and easily

1223 00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:13,820 test and see what works and what doesn't.

1224 00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:17,540 And, from an IT perspective,

1225 00:46:17,540 --> 00:46:20,120 all of that works better if you have

1226 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,910 good, easy-to-use tools, that focus on

1227 00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:24,770 migration. It's about

1228 00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:26,900 managing change, both in the enterprise

1229 00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:28,430 environment and the open source

1230 00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:31,370 community, wherever you are, the number of

1231 00:46:31,370 --> 00:46:32,960 development tools that exist in order to

1232 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,750 help you manage change is incredible.

1233 00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:38,000 The blockchain environment is so dynamic

1234 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,589 that this is, I think

1235 00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:42,259 one of the biggest missing pieces for

1236 00:46:42,259 --> 00:46:45,589 any serious development

1237 00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:47,180 team that wants to focus on the

1238 00:46:47,180 --> 00:46:49,099 blockchain. This is a big hole in their

1239 00:46:49,099 --> 00:46:50,779 tool chest. Brad: And I think what's impressive

1240 00:46:50,779 --> 00:46:53,059 also, just before I come across to you

1241 00:46:53,059 --> 00:46:55,219 Lawrence, is that that you are addressing

1242 00:46:55,219 --> 00:46:57,200 that hole and I think we need to really

1243 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,059 make that clear, is that, one thing that

1244 00:46:59,059 --> 00:47:01,039 you said in that comment was that

1245 00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:02,719 you can't do a certain... you can't

1246 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,119 achieve a minimum of ten thousand DApps

1247 00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:06,440 on your blockchain unless you do these

1248 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,569 things. You're addressing the hole so

1249 00:47:08,569 --> 00:47:10,219 that can be a natural

1250 00:47:10,219 --> 00:47:11,779 progression. Right now there is no

1251 00:47:11,779 --> 00:47:13,579 natural progression. So, Lawrence can you

1252 00:47:13,579 --> 00:47:14,749 continue on and please, I'm sorry

1253 00:47:14,749 --> 00:47:17,239 to interrupt. Lawrence: No, no, that's fine, thank you,

1254 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,430 and I double down on everything

1255 00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:20,869 Nash said. The other thing is testing

1256 00:47:20,869 --> 00:47:23,630 tools. Nobody's got robust testing tools

1257 00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:26,749 and I've run large consultancies around

1258 00:47:26,749 --> 00:47:28,910 that, that's what I'm investing in,

1259 00:47:28,910 --> 00:47:31,849 oracles, there are lots and lots of

1260 00:47:31,849 --> 00:47:33,920 opportunities, not just for software

1261 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,749 oracles, we're gonna see hardware

1262 00:47:35,749 --> 00:47:39,680 oracles, sensors, IOT, we're going very

1263 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,170 big on those. Is it gonna all happen in six

1264 00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:45,650 months? No! I'm a realist. But those are

1265 00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:47,599 the things that we want to invest in

1266 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:49,339 early and those are the things the

1267 00:47:49,339 --> 00:47:52,279 enterprise wants to see, entrepreneurs

1268 00:47:52,279 --> 00:47:55,299 are coming back with. Our devices, they do

1269 00:47:55,299 --> 00:47:59,299 telematics in cars, soil monitoring,

1270 00:47:59,299 --> 00:48:02,390 I talked to a bank, you know, in South

1271 00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:04,880 America that wants to do that for

1272 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,719 farmers. All of those things are key to

1273 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,900 growth and they demonstrate how well

1274 00:48:11,900 --> 00:48:13,759 RChain will scale, how well it'll get

1275 00:48:13,759 --> 00:48:16,279 adopted and that people can make money

1276 00:48:16,279 --> 00:48:19,640 off of their hard work and be able to

1277 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,410 grow business and create better lives. I

1278 00:48:21,410 --> 00:48:23,499 mean, I can go on about banking as well,

1279 00:48:23,499 --> 00:48:29,229 it's socially conscious banking.

1280 00:48:29,229 --> 00:48:31,579 I'm always reluctant to

1281 00:48:31,579 --> 00:48:33,589 talk about names until I've spoken to

1282 00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:35,499 the people, but one of the ones that's

1283 00:48:35,499 --> 00:48:37,969 a socially responsible bank,

1284 00:48:37,969 --> 00:48:39,559 they're not saying, hey our blockchain is

1285 00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:41,359 going to disrupt it. They want to connect

1286 00:48:41,359 --> 00:48:45,019 to the central banks and then connect

1287 00:48:45,019 --> 00:48:47,239 them in third-world countries, like Cora

1288 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,059 Network, so I'll use their name. Where

1289 00:48:50,059 --> 00:48:51,559 there isn't strong banking

1290 00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:53,150 infrastructure, people are driving

1291 00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:55,549 across the border with bank transfers

1292 00:48:55,549 --> 00:48:58,099 and all they want to do, and I'm

1293 00:48:58,099 --> 00:49:00,380 not trying to oversimplify it, is connect

1294 00:49:00,380 --> 00:49:02,779 them using blockchain technology because

1295 00:49:02,779 --> 00:49:04,880 it's cheaper and easier to run and it

1296 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,270 empowers lives. Those are some of the

1297 00:49:08,270 --> 00:49:10,640 mandates that Greg Meredith put in,

1298 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,319 everybody on the board that you asked

1299 00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:15,460 about, people like Nash, myself, Ed Eykholt

1300 00:49:15,460 --> 00:49:18,829 and others who've really worked very

1301 00:49:18,829 --> 00:49:20,839 hard to build it. Sorry, I'm getting very

1302 00:49:20,839 --> 00:49:23,150 passionate. Brad: No, I think that's great.

1303 00:49:23,150 --> 00:49:25,130 And Lawrence, just to reiterate, I think this

1304 00:49:25,130 --> 00:49:26,900 is important obviously, for my blockchain

1305 00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:28,099 knowledge, is that right from the very

1306 00:49:28,099 --> 00:49:29,930 first iteration of blockchain, the very

1307 00:49:29,930 --> 00:49:32,119 first white paper we saw, we saw the

1308 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:34,369 premise of circumventing authorities,

1309 00:49:34,369 --> 00:49:36,319 circumventing control, circumventing

1310 00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:39,020 enterprise in fact. What is very exciting

1311 00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:40,670 about companies like you, and not to FOMO

1312 00:49:40,670 --> 00:49:42,740 the market by any means, but, is that you

1313 00:49:42,740 --> 00:49:44,809 are addressing a key part of trust and

1314 00:49:44,809 --> 00:49:46,789 identity. Until that is done initially

1315 00:49:46,789 --> 00:49:48,200 and then we address the issue that Nash

1316 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,700 was talking about with the holes, you're not

1317 00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:51,200 actually ever going to enter into

1318 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,240 enterprise market successfully. So

1319 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:55,130 it appears that your whole team have

1320 00:49:55,130 --> 00:49:56,750 analyzed this very well as a third

1321 00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:58,609 generation blockchain.

1322 00:49:58,609 --> 00:50:00,440 And you're approaching it in such a way that it

1323 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,670 does definitely incorporate

1324 00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:06,799 the benefits for enterprise

1325 00:50:06,799 --> 00:50:09,109 and also the benefits for the user. And

1326 00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:10,520 what else I mean by that, is that

1327 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,740 without those degrees of ID, there's

1328 00:50:12,740 --> 00:50:14,119 certainly no conversation in the

1329 00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:15,710 enterprise perspective. Because that has

1330 00:50:15,710 --> 00:50:17,450 to be secure. But is that fair to

1331 00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:18,279 say?

1332 00:50:18,279 --> 00:50:21,200 Lawrence: Absolutely! Absolutely! Brad: So, given that

1333 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,730 there are, from my knowledge so few,

1334 00:50:22,730 --> 00:50:24,619 really in the game of ID, in the

1335 00:50:24,619 --> 00:50:26,000 blockchain space. I'm gonna be really

1336 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,650 watching you guys to find out which one,

1337 00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:29,720 which partnerships you're making in that

1338 00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:32,089 respect. But in terms of vision, before we

1339 00:50:32,089 --> 00:50:33,020 finish off with some special

1340 00:50:33,020 --> 00:50:34,220 announcements hopefully you might give

1341 00:50:34,220 --> 00:50:35,990 us. What's the vision in the next few

1342 00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:37,309 years? You know, what do you look back and

1343 00:50:37,309 --> 00:50:38,809 see Nash, with all your technical

1344 00:50:38,809 --> 00:50:41,750 knowledge, what is

1345 00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:47,839 RChain in 2020? Nash: I honestly think that if

1346 00:50:47,839 --> 00:50:50,210 we are successful in the next five years

1347 00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:51,859 we're gonna become the world's largest

1348 00:50:51,859 --> 00:50:54,109 smart contracting platform and we're

1349 00:50:54,109 --> 00:50:56,990 gonna begin to enable individual end

1350 00:50:56,990 --> 00:50:59,599 users to participate in all the

1351 00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:02,329 types of economic transactions that have

1352 00:51:02,329 --> 00:51:03,710 been locked up inside the financial

1353 00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:05,520 system for decades.

1354 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,619 And the democratization of the financial

1355 00:51:07,619 --> 00:51:10,050 system is gonna be really

1356 00:51:10,050 --> 00:51:11,850 incredible and wonderful thing to

1357 00:51:11,850 --> 00:51:13,320 observe and I hope that RChain is a

1358 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,390 really central part of that. Brad: I think just

1359 00:51:15,390 --> 00:51:17,010 the fact you said alone you

1360 00:51:17,010 --> 00:51:18,420 think it's gonna be the world's largest, we're

1361 00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:20,490 talking about serious optimism here.

1362 00:51:20,490 --> 00:51:22,140 Let's talk about the firewall for a moment

1363 00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:23,340 before I go across to Lawrence

1364 00:51:23,340 --> 00:51:25,080 in the same question. The firewall in

1365 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,360 China, this idea of

1366 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,380 this invisible

1367 00:51:28,380 --> 00:51:31,350 blockade that exists

1368 00:51:31,350 --> 00:51:32,850 in many industry, including blockchain.

1369 00:51:32,850 --> 00:51:35,119 How are you going to break through that?

1370 00:51:35,119 --> 00:51:38,369 Nash: Yeah, so it's interesting, we actually

1371 00:51:38,369 --> 00:51:41,340 worked out a system last week for

1372 00:51:41,340 --> 00:51:43,500 allowing people to connect and

1373 00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:45,750 disconnect some blockchains from the

1374 00:51:45,750 --> 00:51:47,940 RChain Namespaces, and I think that

1375 00:51:47,940 --> 00:51:49,950 this is really how things are going to

1376 00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:52,230 be implemented in terms of managing

1377 00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:54,210 private and semi-private blockchains

1378 00:51:54,210 --> 00:51:56,040 that are governed differently

1379 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,500 from the main set of Namespaces

1380 00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:00,570 that exist across the world.

1381 00:52:00,570 --> 00:52:04,470 Brad: So, we're talking gateways in some way?

1382 00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:06,180 Nash: Yeah, how it exactly gets implemented is gonna be

1383 00:52:06,180 --> 00:52:08,250 sort of open to each individual user but

1384 00:52:08,250 --> 00:52:10,200 we know at this point that what we can

1385 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,810 do is allow people to take

1386 00:52:12,810 --> 00:52:14,130 the Namespaces that they've

1387 00:52:14,130 --> 00:52:16,350 created for themselves and disconnect

1388 00:52:16,350 --> 00:52:17,820 them, go off and run them on their own

1389 00:52:17,820 --> 00:52:19,830 and then bring them back

1390 00:52:19,830 --> 00:52:21,900 So we've seen in the blockchain

1391 00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:23,760 space, you've seen blockchains fork,

1392 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,170 We know what it looks like for

1393 00:52:25,170 --> 00:52:27,270 two chunks of the parties to go their

1394 00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:29,400 separate ways. What we haven't seen yet, is

1395 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,380 we haven't seen two separate parties

1396 00:52:31,380 --> 00:52:33,330 come back together. And that's one of the

1397 00:52:33,330 --> 00:52:34,890 things that we figured out very recently,

1398 00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:37,290 that we can do with Namespaces. It's

1399 00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:40,380 gonna make it possible for the

1400 00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:42,119 Chinese government and their

1401 00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:44,160 society to find ways to make blockchain

1402 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,230 work well for them within whatever

1403 00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:48,359 framework they want to bring to the

1404 00:52:48,359 --> 00:52:51,420 table. We're not here to try to change

1405 00:52:51,420 --> 00:52:53,520 the way that China does business, we're

1406 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,170 just here to try to give them a technology

1407 00:52:55,170 --> 00:52:57,150 that allows them to integrate their

1408 00:52:57,150 --> 00:52:58,470 business with the business of the rest of

1409 00:52:58,470 --> 00:53:00,540 the world, as fairly as possible.

1410 00:53:00,540 --> 00:53:03,090 And, I think we can do that very

1411 00:53:03,090 --> 00:53:05,220 easily with RChain. Brad: I agree and also

1412 00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:06,690 there's a misnomer out there obviously,

1413 00:53:06,690 --> 00:53:08,820 with the ICO event, let's say, in China

1414 00:53:08,820 --> 00:53:10,530 that somehow there's an aversion in

1415 00:53:10,530 --> 00:53:12,300 China for blockchain which is absolute

1416 00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:14,010 nonsense, because they are leading the

1417 00:53:14,010 --> 00:53:15,540 world in fact in many respects with

1418 00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:17,940 their iterations and

1419 00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:19,020 their number of blockchain,

1420 00:53:19,020 --> 00:53:21,720 enterprises and businesses and

1421 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:23,130 that sort of thing.

1422 00:53:23,130 --> 00:53:25,020 Nash: China is incredibly

1423 00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:26,490 innovative in the way that

1424 00:53:26,490 --> 00:53:28,290 they deploy technology across their

1425 00:53:28,290 --> 00:53:30,180 economy in order to accomplish their

1426 00:53:30,180 --> 00:53:32,460 goals and they have a wonderful way

1427 00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:35,520 of working together in order to

1428 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,950 accomplish society-wide goals that did

1429 00:53:37,950 --> 00:53:40,440 have staggering scale. So when China

1430 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:41,880 decides to get serious about the

1431 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,710 blockchain and to use it for something,

1432 00:53:43,710 --> 00:53:46,560 use it for applications that

1433 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,869 matter to them, I think it's gonna be an

1434 00:53:48,869 --> 00:53:50,580 incredible thing to watch. Brad: Absolutely, I

1435 00:53:50,580 --> 00:53:51,570 mean I can tell you about one example,

1436 00:53:51,570 --> 00:53:53,700 just briefly from my knowledge is they

1437 00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:55,680 are unraveling a one road - one built

1438 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:57,390 initiative which you may know of, and

1439 00:53:57,390 --> 00:53:59,760 that is of a significant scale in the

1440 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,290 international space, particularly from

1441 00:54:01,290 --> 00:54:03,060 China across through to Europe. We're

1442 00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:03,960 gonna talk about that further at the

1443 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:05,610 moment but Lawrence if we go across to

1444 00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:07,100 you now and talk about your vision.

1445 00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:08,820 Obviously, you have a different

1446 00:54:08,820 --> 00:54:10,560 perspective being so enterprise focused

1447 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,990 and you're rallying various business

1448 00:54:12,990 --> 00:54:15,360 relationships now. What's your vision,

1449 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,420 you know, for the long term?

1450 00:54:17,420 --> 00:54:20,400 Lawrence: Developers, getting the tools

1451 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,590 into the hands of the developers, so they

1452 00:54:22,590 --> 00:54:26,540 can build things, that we can create an

1453 00:54:26,540 --> 00:54:29,609 ecosystem of education around how the

1454 00:54:29,609 --> 00:54:32,460 blockchain should work, how gas pricing

1455 00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:35,400 or as we call it Phlogiston, works to

1456 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,820 build out the chains because the

1457 00:54:37,820 --> 00:54:40,109 ecosystems are gonna be so complicated,

1458 00:54:40,109 --> 00:54:43,200 we want to foster that education so that

1459 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,109 then companies, entrepreneurs and

1460 00:54:46,109 --> 00:54:48,869 startups can build really massively

1461 00:54:48,869 --> 00:54:51,630 scaled new networks that are outside of

1462 00:54:51,630 --> 00:54:53,790 the traditional system. We've seen some

1463 00:54:53,790 --> 00:54:56,510 spectacular failures in the traditional

1464 00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:59,820 banking system around credit cards with

1465 00:54:59,820 --> 00:55:00,950 MCX.

1466 00:55:00,950 --> 00:55:04,410 We have the opportunity to create those

1467 00:55:04,410 --> 00:55:08,550 and add value at all levels and so I see

1468 00:55:08,550 --> 00:55:12,240 us creating the dialogue, delivering on

1469 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:14,790 standards, driving that with

1470 00:55:14,790 --> 00:55:16,890 other partners, many other partners and

1471 00:55:16,890 --> 00:55:18,540 then having the technology that

1472 00:55:18,540 --> 00:55:21,390 underlies it, to get it executed, this is

1473 00:55:21,390 --> 00:55:24,359 just like the Internet days. How exactly

1474 00:55:24,359 --> 00:55:26,850 it's gonna happen, don't know, I'm not

1475 00:55:26,850 --> 00:55:30,780 that smart, I don't think anybody is.

1476 00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:32,549 Brad: I think you certainly are smart, the whole team of RChain

1477 00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:34,529 Holdings, the whole team of Pyrofex, it's

1478 00:55:34,529 --> 00:55:37,439 what you're all like, focused on doing in

1479 00:55:37,439 --> 00:55:39,689 a unified way is exceptional. It's

1480 00:55:39,689 --> 00:55:41,130 special announcements, I mean, I always

1481 00:55:41,130 --> 00:55:44,069 like to encourage those to come

1482 00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:45,869 forth if you can provide any. What's

1483 00:55:45,869 --> 00:55:47,009 happening that you want to

1484 00:55:47,009 --> 00:55:52,739 release with regard to RChain? Nash: I think

1485 00:55:52,739 --> 00:55:53,939 one of the most exciting things that's

1486 00:55:53,939 --> 00:55:55,499 going to happen in the next month is

1487 00:55:55,499 --> 00:55:57,209 that the developer team is gonna release

1488 00:55:57,209 --> 00:56:00,359 the first Rholang SDK and we're gonna

1489 00:56:00,359 --> 00:56:02,130 launch the developer.rchain.coop

1490 00:56:02,130 --> 00:56:04,199 website to go along with it, so

1491 00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:06,929 you'll be able to download the existing

1492 00:56:06,929 --> 00:56:08,640 compilers that we've

1493 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,969 written and run them on the Rosette VM.

1494 00:56:10,969 --> 00:56:14,099 We're gonna release a

1495 00:56:14,099 --> 00:56:16,140 set of documentation

1496 00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:17,789 associated with that, so people can begin

1497 00:56:17,789 --> 00:56:20,309 to familiarize themselves with the Rholang

1498 00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:22,829 language as it stands today. We also have

1499 00:56:22,829 --> 00:56:25,289 the future looking documentation

1500 00:56:25,289 --> 00:56:26,699 that's associated with our Mercury

1501 00:56:26,699 --> 00:56:29,130 release target down towards the end of

1502 00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:30,479 this year, that we're going to be putting

1503 00:56:30,479 --> 00:56:32,279 up on that website as well and that's

1504 00:56:32,279 --> 00:56:33,509 gonna allow people to see how the

1505 00:56:33,509 --> 00:56:34,859 language will be evolving over the

1506 00:56:34,859 --> 00:56:37,319 course of this year. We're hopeful that

1507 00:56:37,319 --> 00:56:38,459 people will come to the website,

1508 00:56:38,459 --> 00:56:40,289 developer.rchain.coop, that

1509 00:56:40,289 --> 00:56:42,630 they'll download the SDK, they'll play with

1510 00:56:42,630 --> 00:56:44,339 it, they'll learn a little bit of Rho

1511 00:56:44,339 --> 00:56:46,799 Calculus, a little bit about the Rosette

1512 00:56:46,799 --> 00:56:48,779 VM and the Rholang compilers and they'll

1513 00:56:48,779 --> 00:56:52,349 have a good time. And you begin to see

1514 00:56:52,349 --> 00:56:53,489 what the potential is for this

1515 00:56:53,489 --> 00:56:56,789 interesting new way of writing programs.

1516 00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:59,039 Brad: It's the day of beginning for RChain in a sense. We need to

1517 00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:01,199 really make sure to hell we hit the

1518 00:57:01,199 --> 00:57:02,249 nail on the head with that one, because

1519 00:57:02,249 --> 00:57:03,749 that's really the beginning as Lawrence

1520 00:57:03,749 --> 00:57:05,459 was saying. That's the objective, is to

1521 00:57:05,459 --> 00:57:07,890 try and really get people on board who

1522 00:57:07,890 --> 00:57:10,019 have the skillsets, the developing

1523 00:57:10,019 --> 00:57:11,939 skillsets. But let's talk about the specifics,

1524 00:57:11,939 --> 00:57:13,499 we know that Ethereum has its finite

1525 00:57:13,499 --> 00:57:16,259 language as well. How difficult is it?

1526 00:57:16,259 --> 00:57:18,569 We've seen some of the

1527 00:57:18,569 --> 00:57:20,099 problems and issues with Ethereum,

1528 00:57:20,099 --> 00:57:21,390 with their Solidity

1529 00:57:21,390 --> 00:57:24,329 language design. So how accessible, how

1530 00:57:24,329 --> 00:57:29,249 easy and how functional is it? Nash: I think the thing

1531 00:57:29,249 --> 00:57:30,719 about Rholang is that it's gonna

1532 00:57:30,719 --> 00:57:31,709 be different,

1533 00:57:31,709 --> 00:57:33,359 and so I don't think that Rholang

1534 00:57:33,359 --> 00:57:35,729 is a difficult language. Its syntax is

1535 00:57:35,729 --> 00:57:38,729 actually remarkably small, the entire Rho

1536 00:57:38,729 --> 00:57:41,309 Calculus fits on about ten lines of

1537 00:57:41,309 --> 00:57:44,640 notepad paper. So it's a tiny core to

1538 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,280 describe this model of computation

1539 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,370 and then from there we build up a fairly

1540 00:57:49,370 --> 00:57:51,050 simple programming language for doing

1541 00:57:51,050 --> 00:57:54,020 smart contracts. There will be obviously

1542 00:57:54,020 --> 00:57:56,090 some learning curve associated with the

1543 00:57:56,090 --> 00:57:59,000 new syntax and the new semantics of

1544 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,770 learning to program in the Rho Calculus,

1545 00:58:00,770 --> 00:58:03,440 versus Von Neumann machines.

1546 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,710 But we think that a little bit

1547 00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:10,190 of cognitive impedance helps people

1548 00:58:10,190 --> 00:58:13,520 remember the differences and helps stand

1549 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,350 out, and so we're actually really

1550 00:58:15,350 --> 00:58:16,610 hopeful that people are gonna find it to

1551 00:58:16,610 --> 00:58:18,650 be fun and exciting on its own, even

1552 00:58:18,650 --> 00:58:20,450 before the blockchain nodes are

1553 00:58:20,450 --> 00:58:23,000 available. And that will

1554 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,800 help them to want to write smart

1555 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,500 contracts for RChain. I'm really, very

1556 00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:29,630 excited for people to get their hands on

1557 00:58:29,630 --> 00:58:30,740 it and just start beginning to learn

1558 00:58:30,740 --> 00:58:33,050 Rholang. Brad: And I wanted to ask both of you,

1559 00:58:33,050 --> 00:58:35,000 because I would love to ask Vitalik if

1560 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,470 he'd ever talk to me as well with the same

1561 00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:39,200 question. Why go and do this

1562 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,320 blockchain specific

1563 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,520 language, developing language. Why not

1564 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:45,620 open it up to the majority open source

1565 00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:47,590 languages it exists already?

1566 00:58:47,590 --> 00:58:49,400 Nash: Well, actually Rholang is a

1567 00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,050 general-purpose programming language and

1568 00:58:51,050 --> 00:58:52,910 the SDK that we're releasing now is

1569 00:58:52,910 --> 00:58:56,090 going to be completely agnostic of the

1570 00:58:56,090 --> 00:58:58,490 blockchain. It won't require the node to

1571 00:58:58,490 --> 00:59:00,140 run, it's gonna be possible for you to

1572 00:59:00,140 --> 00:59:02,720 run arbitrary computer programs on it.

1573 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,720 We have designed the language in

1574 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,370 order to facilitate distributed

1575 00:59:07,370 --> 00:59:08,590 computing and that inherently

1576 00:59:08,590 --> 00:59:11,810 facilitates the blockchain, and so it's

1577 00:59:11,810 --> 00:59:14,630 going to be very easy to adapt Rholang

1578 00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:17,210 and the Rosette VMs to run

1579 00:59:17,210 --> 00:59:19,130 within the blockchain nodes and

1580 00:59:19,130 --> 00:59:22,190 alongside Casper. And then we're gonna

1581 00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:24,680 implement Casper in Rholang, also we're

1582 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,240 gonna eat our own dog food over the

1583 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,100 course of the next year and we think

1584 00:59:28,100 --> 00:59:29,570 that there's very little that we could

1585 00:59:29,570 --> 00:59:31,700 do to prove that how confident we are in

1586 00:59:31,700 --> 00:59:33,620 the language design and in the virtual

1587 00:59:33,620 --> 00:59:35,540 machine, than to actually implement the

1588 00:59:35,540 --> 00:59:37,220 consensus algorithm in our own

1589 00:59:37,220 --> 00:59:39,050 programming language. Brad: Fascinating,

1590 00:59:39,050 --> 00:59:40,340 when I hear you both speak,

1591 00:59:40,340 --> 00:59:41,840 particularly you Nash, with your technological

1592 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,030 prowesses is, that really

1593 00:59:44,030 --> 00:59:45,740 essentially in many ways, bit like me,

1594 00:59:45,740 --> 00:59:48,770 with me being a NEO nerd. Really, you guys,

1595 00:59:48,770 --> 00:59:51,860 you had that connotation or at the

1596 00:59:51,860 --> 00:59:53,150 moment, currently as

1597 00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:55,310 technologically nerds of the space. But

1598 00:59:55,310 --> 00:59:57,380 what I mean by that is, that you're not

1599 00:59:57,380 --> 00:59:59,480 well-known beyond that and I really hope

1600 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:00,050 that we can

1601 01:00:00,050 --> 01:00:01,580 really push this forth into the

1602 01:00:01,580 --> 01:00:03,950 mainstream space. Because you really are

1603 01:00:03,950 --> 01:00:05,600 so much more than a

1604 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,480 technologically savvy team. You are

1605 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,760 building out a very robust team prepared

1606 01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:12,350 for business, and that's why I like

1607 01:00:12,350 --> 01:00:13,670 talking to you, because you're a really,

1608 01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:15,380 essentially a business blockchain. You're

1609 01:00:15,380 --> 01:00:17,360 all business. End of the bedrock

1610 01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,430 is the technology. So I really appreciate

1611 01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:20,480 the time that you've taken today, I

1612 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,040 understand you're both extremely busy as

1613 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,260 CEOs of a holding company with the

1614 01:00:24,260 --> 01:00:25,640 RChain Holding company. Thank you so much

1615 01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:26,930 Lawrence Lerner, I appreciate your time

1616 01:00:26,930 --> 01:00:29,240 today. Thank you so much Nash, appreciate

1617 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:30,440 your time. I know that you're leading a

1618 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,690 team of 15 very smart people, certainly

1619 01:00:32,690 --> 01:00:34,520 smarter than me. And hopefully we can

1620 01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,590 talk again, and I'll be really

1621 01:00:36,590 --> 01:00:38,630 excited to follow the journey that

1622 01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:41,150 RChain is going to build out in

1623 01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:42,460 the next few years.

1624 01:00:42,460 --> 01:00:45,590 Lawrence: Love to. Thank you so much. Nash: Thanks for

1625 01:00:45,590 --> 01:00:48,590 having us on.